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2 HEARING 

SENATE RULES COMMITTEE 

STATE OF CALIFORNIA 




DOCUMENTS DEPT. 

MAY 2 1 2001 

SAN FRANCISCO 
PUBLIC LIBRARY 



STATE CAPITOL 

ROOM 112 

SACRAMENTO, CALIFORNIA 

MONDAY, MAY 7, 2001 
2:12 P.M. 



426- R 



SENATE RULES COMMITTEE 
STATE OF CALIFORNIA 



HEARING 



STATE CAPITOL 

ROOM 112 

SACRAMENTO, CALIFORNIA 



MONDAY, MAY 7, 2001 
2:12 P.M. 



Reported by: 



Evelyn J. Mizak 
Shorthand Reporter 



4 49386 SFPL: ECONO JRS 
88 SFPL 07/07/03 



3 1223 03273 9840 



11 



APPEARANCES 

MEMBERS PRESENT 

SENATOR JOHN BURTON, Chair 

SENATOR ROSS JOHNSON, Vice Chair 

SENATOR BETTY KARNETTE 

SENATOR WILLIAM KNIGHT 

SENATOR GLORIA ROMERO 

STAFF PRESENT 

GREG SCHMIDT, Executive Officer 

PAT WEBB, Committee Secretary 

NETTIE SABELHAUS, Consultant on Governor's Appointments 

SUSIE SWATT, Consultant to SENATOR JOHNSON 

TIM SHELLEY, Consultant to SENATOR KARNETTE 

CHRIS BURNS, Consultant to SENATOR KNIGHT 

RYAN SHERMAN, Consultant to SENATOR ROMERO 

ALSO PRESENT 

BRIAN E. CONLEY, Member 
Board of Governors 
California Community Colleges 

SENATOR JOE DUNN 

CHRISTOPHER CABALDON, Chancellor's Office 
California Community Colleges 

JONATHAN LIGHTMAN 

Faculty Association of California Community Colleges 

JUDITH MICHAELS 

California Federation of Teachers 

ANTONIA HERNANDEZ, Member 
Board of Governors 
California Community Colleges 



Ill 



SENATOR LIZ FIGUEROA 

ANTONIA TRIGUEIRO 

California Teachers Association 

CLARISSA MARTINEZ -DE CASTRO 
National Council of La Raza 

ESAU RUIZ HERRERA, President 

California Latino School Board Members Association 

ROBERT L. MOORE, Member 
Board of Governors 
California Community Colleges 



IV 
INDEX 

Page 
Proceedings 1 

Governor ' s Appointees : 

BRIAN E. CONLEY, Member 

Board of Governors 

California Community Colleges 1 

Background and Experience 1 

Questions by CHAIRMAN BURTON re: 

Passage of Cal Grant Program 2 

What Community Colleges Can Do to 

Make Students Aware of the Availability 

Of Cal Grants 3 

Questions by SENATOR JOHNSON re: 

What Have Rancho Santiago and Coast 

Community Colleges Districts Done with 

Respect to Cal Grants 4 

Need for Districts to Highlight 

Availability of Grants in Application 

Process 5 

Statement in Support by 

SENATOR JOE DUNN 5 

Questions by SENATOR KARNETTE re: 

Solving Problem of Too Many 

Part-time Instructors 6 

Possible Collective Bargaining Issue 7 

Questions of CHRISTOPHER CABALDON, 
Chancellor's Office, by CHAIRMAN BURTON re: 

Cause for Grants to Be Down 21, 000 7 



Efforts of Chancellor's Office to Let 

Students Know about Cal Grant 

Availability 8 

Possibility of Community College Districts 

Contacting High School Principals and 

Counselors 9 

Statements by SENATOR JOHNSON re: 

Community College District Mailings 9 

Possibility of Mailing to Graduating 

High School Seniors 10 

Witnesses in Support: 

JONATHAN LIGHTMAN 

Faculty Association of California 

Community Colleges 10 

JUDITH MICHAELS 

California Federation of Teachers 10 

Motion to Confirm 10 

Committee Action 11 

ANTONIA HERNANDEZ, Member 

Board of Governors 

California Community Colleges 11 

Opening Statement 11 

Questions by SENATOR JOHNSON re: 

Appropriate Role of Community Colleges 

To Improve on Cal Grant Applications 12 

Personal Attendance at Community College 12 

Statement in Support by: 

SENATOR LIZ FIGUEROA 12 

Statements by SENATOR JOHNSON re: 

Need for Community Colleges to 

Target Graduating High School Seniors 14 



VI 



Witnesses in Support: 

JONATHAN LIGHTMAN 

Faculty Association of California 

Community Colleges 14 

TONI TRIGUEIRO 

California Teachers Association 14 

JUDITH MICHAELS 

California Federation of Teachers 14 

CLARISSA MARTINEZ -DE CASTRO 

National Council of La Raza 14 

ESAU HERRERA, President 

California Latino School Board 

Members Association 14 

Questions by SENATOR KARNETTE re: 

Uniformity in Numbering Courses for 

Transfer Students 15 

Motion to Confirm 16 

Committee Action 16 

ROBERT L. MOORE, Member 

Board of Governors 

California Community Colleges 16 

Questions by CHAIRMAN BURTON re: 

Cal Grants 16 

Statements by SENATOR JOHNSON re: 

Cal Grants and Use of Camera- ready 

Copy for Advertising 17 

Motion to Confirm 18 

Committee Action 19 

Termination of Proceedings 19 

Certificate of Reporter 20 



P-R-O-C-E-E-D-I-N-G-S 
--00O00-- 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Governor's appointees, Brian 
Conley, Member, Board of Community Colleges Governors. 

Sir, we have your statement for the record, so 
if you just want to highlight. 

MR. CONLEY: Okay. 

Number one, it's a pleasure and honor to be here 
today. 

I have a short statement, probably two minutes, 
if you wouldn't mind me reading it? Would that be okay? 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Thank you. 

MR. CONLEY: I'm a graduate of Sacramento City 
College, and I attribute my personal and professional success in 
education to the degree I received there at that institution. 
Though I went on to receive both a Bachelor's and Master's 
degree, I feel that the foundation I received at Sacramento City 
College prepared me to successfully address many of the 
challenges of professional and personal life. 

For the past 25 years, I've taught at the 
community college level, and 9 of those years I chaired an 
academic department. In 1988, I was elected to the Board of 
Trustees of Rancho Santiago Community College District in Orange 
County. Last November, I was re-elected for the fourth term, 
receiving the largest amount of votes any trustee ever received 
in our district. 

While on the Board, I served two terms as 
President, and participated in the Orange County Community 



College Legislative Task Force, and I've been involved in 
numerous groups and public boards. 

Governor Davis appointed me on the Board of 
Governors last October 30th. I presently chair Equity Diversity 
and Human Resources Committee and serve on the Educational 
Policies Committee, and the Legislative Committee, and Student 
Services Committee. 

As a professor, administrator, and elected 
trustee in the community college district, I have a substantial 
understanding of higher education's strengths and weaknesses. 
My role as a community college trustee provides me with a keen 
appreciation of the rising public expectations for education at 
all levels, and the critical need for integration between K-12, 
two and four-year institutions of higher learning. 

At both the state and the national level, I have 
advocated for community colleges that remain affordable, and 
sensitive to the diverse needs of our citizens, and responsive 
to the challenging needs -- excuse me -- changing needs of the 
business community. 

These experiences have provided me with a 
portfolio of skills tailored specifically to enhance my role as 
a Board of Governors Member. 

Thank you. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Last year, the Legislature, on 
an unanimous 120 to nothing vote in both Houses, passed an 
historic Cal Grant Program to provide grants for students. 

The number of new grants are down 21,000 from 
last year, which seems kinds of bizarre to me. 



What can the community college do to communicate 
more systematically with the students who can benefit from this? 
What are they doing now? Does the system have plans to make 
college counseling a higher priority at individual campuses? 

And also, the new program allows community 
college students to apply for Cal Grants up to September 2nd 
each year after the established March 2 deadline. What steps do 
you support or would you take to ensure that the community 
college students understand they can compete for these awards? 

We went through all that stuff to see it drop 
down 21,000. It really makes us realize what a wonderful job we 
do. 

MR. CONLEY: That's horrible. I agree. 

I think counseling is the key there. Information 
needs to be out in terms of the local community college 
districts . 

We as a Board of Governors certainly can force, 
impress upon the local districts to reach out to those students 
because those are the students that are really the ones that are 
going to benefit. Lower income students, the students that are 
diverse students, really need the Cal Grants and the Cal Grants 
have been excellent. 

On the national level, we've had other types of 
grant programs, but because the tuition is so low in California, 
they haven't been as helpful as they possibly could, but the Cal 
Grants have been essential for those students. 

I agree with you. I feel that they should be up 
rather than down. And I think we need to communicate and put 



more energy into the counseling and the outreach programs. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: What are the Board of Governors 
and the Chancellor doing? Nothing? 

MR. CONLEY: No, we set policy. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: How about they say, get this 
information. 

What was the policy? 

MR. CONLEY: I do not know, Senator Burton. I've 
been on the Board only a few months. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Well, I think we set the policy 
by making it available. And not being critical of you, but they 
should have implemented it. 

I think one of the things that we ought to do, 
and I'll talk to Senator O'Connell about this, that they clearly 
ought to make sure that the community colleges, through the 
Chancellor's office, lets people know this is going on. 

SENATOR JOHNSON: Question. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Senator Johnson. 

SENATOR JOHNSON: I see Senator Dunn is here. I 
think he wanted to say some nice thing abouts the nominee. 

You served on the Board of Rancho Santiago. What 
has the Rancho District done in the way of outreach? 

You're a professor in the Coast Community College 
District. What's Coast Community College doing? 

I mean, they send out a lot of catalogues. They 
sent out a lot of information to local residents. What have 
they been doing to emphasize the availability of Cal Grant 
loans? 



MR. CONLEY: Senator, I think it still goes back 
to the counseling area. I can probably talk more about Rancho 
Santiago Community College District, being on the Board, rather 
than the Coast District, being a professor there. 

At Rancho, we have a lot of outreach programs in 
the community. We introduce these to our non-credit students. 
We talk about those to the students and make those available as 
possible. We do a lot of counseling to let them see if they 
have full potential. It has to do with communication, and we 
have worked very hard in the Rancho District to do that. 

SENATOR JOHNSON: I guess my question, following 
up on the Chairman's question, is, is there a role for the 
statewide system in encouraging local community college 
districts to be more aggressive in outreach? 

I don't think it involves a lot of counselors or 
whatever. It would seem to me a good starting point would be in 
the materials that they're sending out in any event, that they 
highlight the availability of those grants -- 

MR. CONLEY: I agree with you totally. 

SENATOR JOHNSON: — in the application process. 

MR. CONLEY: And the Board of Governors can make 
that a high priority, and I think it should be. I agree with 
you totally. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Senator Dunn, did you want to 
speak? 

SENATOR DUNN: Thank you, Senator Burton, and 
I'll make it very, very brief. 

I have known Mr. Conley for many years in a 



variety of capacities, professional, and he also happens to be a 
neighbor of mine in Santa Ana. 

And I've witnessed his performance in a variety 
of different contexts and find them all to be stellar, whether 
it's community, neighborhood, his service for the community 
college district, et cetera. 

And I certainly give my wholehearted support for 
Mr. Conley for this appointment. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Senator Karnette. 

Thank you, Senator Dunn. 

SENATOR KARNETTE: I have a concern that I 
mentioned earlier, I think. I'm real concerned about the 
part-time instructors, and I think it would be much better for 
the students if we had more full-time instructors. 

Could you tell us how you see solving that 
problem with getting more full-time instructors? 

MR. CONLEY: With 1725, we have a 75 to 25 ratio; 
75 full-time, 25 part-time. 

The Board of Governors needs to monitor that more 
in terms of the local districts. Right now, the districts 
report to us when they have fallen below that, and then we take 
action. We need to be monitoring that ourselves to make sure 
that that is at least kept up with. 

The 50 percent law that has 50 percent of the 
monies going into education, the problem there is, it does not 
include counselors and guidance people, and also librarians, 
too. So, that's an issue where they play against one another, 
and I think we need to resolve that at sometime in the future. 



SENATOR KARNETTE: Would that get into collective 
bargaining at all? 

MR. CONLEY: I think it -- I don't -- I would 
have to look that up. I think there's some questions both ways, 
because both of it is legislation. So, I don't think so, but I 
think it certainly would on a local district level, yes. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Senator Knight. 

Senator Romero, do you want, as a former 
community college trustee, to weigh in? 

SENATOR ROMERO: No questions. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Is there somebody here from the 
Chancellor's office? 

MR. CABALDON: I'm Christopher Cabaldon. I'm 
with the Chancellor in the Chancellor's office. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: What have they done that caused 
more grants and more money to be 21,000 down from last year? 

MR. CABALDON: Senator, our board has done a 
couple of things to — 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: What has the Chancellor done? 
He's administrative. You don't need board action to do 
something that makes sense. That's why we put the Chancellor 
there . 

MR. CABALDON: We've done two things. One is, we 
have implemented the most aggressive financial aid outreach 
campaign in our system's history. And the Board, also through 
the Governor's budget, has made a request for additional 
resources for financial aid outreach to get the word out. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: What do they do? How could you 



8 



have done the best there is and be down 21,000, when the student 
body's up, and there's more money than has been available 
before? 

MR. CABALDON: Our expectation is that in the 
second draw down on the Cal Grants -- the September deadline is 
when most community college students will apply for those 
grants . 

You'll recall that in the first round, in the 
entitlement phase, the eligibility criteria are a bit narrower 
than they were in the previous year, with the GPA requirement, 
and the age -- the one year out of high school eligibility 
criterion . 

In the second round in September, when the 
competitive grants are made available, more of our students will 
be eligible, and we expect -- and that's the timeframe when most 
community college students apply for financial aid. So, we 
expect a significant increase in that period. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: The reason we're 21,000 down 
from last year is, we haven't got all of the precincts reported 
yet? Is that what you're telling me? 

MR. CABALDON: Yes, sir. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: What is it that you've done to 
let people know that these exist? 

MR. CABALDON: We've done outreach through 
advertising, through newspaper stories locally, also training 
our counselors and doing workshops on campuses so that students 
are aware of it, and try to match it with our existing aid 
programs . 



CHAIRMAN BURTON: It seems like the high schools, 
where the kids probably don't even think they can afford to go 
to college, if they knew this was available, they might go. 

MR. CABALDON: We are doing that to some extent 
in partnership with the Student Aid Commission and with that 
fund. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: What about the Student Aid 
Commission? In my judgment, it always left a fair amount to be 
desired. 

I mean, how about each community college 
contacting either the principals or senior counselors in their 
area, making sure that the stuff's made available to them for 
their graduating seniors? 

MR. CABALDON: Senator, I will be happy to 
contact each one of the community college presidents this week 
and ask them to do that. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Yeah, I mean, I think that was 
something that we were all very proud of, something that 
basically went far beyond the Governor's original plan. And the 
reason it did was, as I said 120 to nothing vote, which meant it 
was going to happen with or without his signature. 

And to find out it didn't do a hell of a lot 
really makes one proud to have been a Legislator and part of it. 

Senator Johnson. 

SENATOR JOHNSON: Just following up on the 
Chairman's comments, I would go back to these mailings that 
community college districts, to my knowledge, up and down the 
state send out these mailings. 



10 



And it would seem to me that it would make a lot 
of sense to maybe cut back on some of those broad, general 
mailings and try and mail to graduating high school seniors, and 
make them aware of the existence of this opportunity for them. 

I mean, in the past, and I don't know if they 
still do it, but, you know, the armed forces were able to get 
lists of graduating seniors and mail about the great 
opportunities that the U.S. Army could provide to them. 

And it just seems to me that the community 
colleges ought to be making them aware of the opportunities for 
financial assistance and getting a college education. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Witnesses in support, briefly. 

MR. LIGHTMAN: Jonathan Lightman on behalf of the 
Faculty Association of California Community Colleges in support 
of the nomination. 

MS. MICHAELS: Judith Michaels, California 
Federation of Teachers in support of the nomination. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Witnesses in opposition? 

SENATOR KARNETTE: Move it. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Moved by Senator Karnette. 
Secretary, call the roll. 

First, do you have your family here? 

MR. CONLEY: Yes, I have my daughter, Alison 



Conley 



back there? 



CHAIRMAN BURTON: Is that the one that was hiding 



MR. CONLEY: Alison is an intern. She's a high 
school student intern with Lou Correa ' s office, and she was a 



11 



former U.S. Senate page for California. She was appointed by 
Senator Finestein last year. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: If you're really lucky, you 
could get into office, pass a bill that nobody takes advantage 
of. 

[Laughter . ] 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Something really to look 
forward to. 

Call the roll. 

SECRETARY WEBB: Senator Karnette. 

SENATOR KARNETTE: Aye. 

SECRETARY WEBB: Karnette Aye. Senator Knight. 

SENATOR KNIGHT: Aye. 

SECRETARY WEBB: Knight Aye. Senator Romero. 

SENATOR ROMERO: Aye. 

SECRETARY WEBB: Romero Aye. Senator Johnson. 

SENATOR JOHNSON: Aye. 

SECRETARY WEBB: Johnson Aye. Senator Burton. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Aye. 

SECRETARY WEBB: Burton Aye. Five to zero. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Congratulations, sir. 

MR. CONLEY: Thank you very much. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Next up, Antonia Hernandez, 
Board of Governors, California Community Colleges. 

MS. HERNANDEZ: Good afternoon. My name is 
Antonia Hernandez. 

I have submitted a document that outlines my 
views, and I ' d be more than happy to answer any questions you 



12 



might have. 

SENATOR JOHNSON: You've been following, I 
assume, this conversation that's been going on. 

MS. HERNANDEZ: Yes. 

SENATOR JOHNSON: I wonder if you have any 
thoughts about the appropriate role of the community college in 
trying to improve on the numbers that the Chairman referred to 
with respect to applications for Cal Grants? 

MS. HERNANDEZ: Actually, I do believe that there 
are other ways to outreach to the student community. 

I've only attended one meeting, and I intend to 
go back and inquire about other means of communicating with 
students . 

SENATOR JOHNSON: Did you attend California 
community college? 

MS. HERNANDEZ: Yes, I am. I'm a graduate of 
East Los Angeles Community College. 

I have two nieces who presently go to Pasadena 
City College. And I have a sister who teaches part-time at a 
community college. 

SENATOR JOHNSON: Questions from Members? 

SENATOR KNIGHT: No more questions about the 
telephones . 

SENATOR JOHNSON: Moving right along, witnesses 
in support . 

Wait a minute. We have a Senator who wants to 
say something. 

SENATOR FIGUEROA: Good afternoon, Senators. It's 



13 



my pleasure to be here in support of my friend and colleague, 
Antonia Hernandez. 

After listening to the discussion that you had 
previously with Mr. Conley, I knew that Ms. Hernandez would do 
very well in implementing the Cal Grants Program and finding a 
solution to the problem we're currently facing. As much as we 
worked to make sure that there was passage of that bill, it's 
disheartening to know the current situation. 

As President of MALDEF, she deals in the area of 
education. She's done it very well, representing 35 Latinos 
throughout the United States. I know that so many of our 
population obtains their education at the community college 
level . 

I respectfully request that you consider Antonia 
Hernandez as a Community College Board Member. She would be an 
excellent candidate and choice. 

SENATOR JOHNSON: Thank you. 

I just would, once again, commend to your 
attention that all of these community colleges send out huge 
numbers of catalogues and information to the community at 
large. 

I get them from the community college district in 
which I reside. The likelihood that I'm going to take -- well, 
actually, my wife is taking some courses — but the likelihood 
that I'm going to take one of these classes is fairly remote. 
And yet, you know, a number of times each year I receive these. 

It seems to me, taking some of that money and 
applying it to even repeated, very specifically targeted 



14 



mailings to graduating high school seniors makes a lot more 
sense . 

Okay, if we could hear from the witnesses in 
favor. 

MR. LIGHTMAN: Jonathan Lightman on behalf of the 
Faculty Association of California Community Colleges in support 
of the nomination. 

MS. TRIGUEIRO: Toni Trigueiro, California 
Teachers Association. 

Given the conversation that we've had here, we're 
delighted to have this nominee. Hope you all support her. 
Thank you very much. 

MS. MICHAELS: Judith Michaels, California 
Federation of Teachers in support of the nomination. 

MS. MARTINEZ-DE CASTRO: Clarissa Martinez with 
the National Council of La Raza, a national Latino civil rights 
organization, in favor of the nomination. 

MR. HERRERA: Good afternoon, Senators. My name 
is Esau Herrera. I an elected school board member from Alum 
Rock Elementary School District in San Jose. Also served five 
years on the high school board of trustees, East Side High 
School District, where many of our students attended community 
college locally. I'm also President of the California Latino 
School Board Members Association. 

I'm here to express our strong support for an 
outstanding role model to all our kids, to all Calif ornians, the 
distinguished woman to my left. We're strongly supporting her 
nomination. 



15 



None appearing 



SENATOR JOHNSON: Any witnesses in opposition? 

Ms. Hernandez, have you family members here? 
MS. HERNANDEZ: No, they're all in school. 

[Laughter . ] 
SENATOR JOHNSON: That's a very good answer. 
What's the will of the Committee? 
SENATOR JOHNSON: Question from Senator 



Karnette 



SENATOR KARNETTE: I just wanted to ask one thing 
that has to do with the transferring of students to CSU and UC, 
and the problem of students not being able to know what to take 
for which school. 

I'm sure with all the people in your family who 
are in the teaching business that you're aware of these 
problems . 

Is there anything that you see that you're going 
to work on in order to make it easier for students to know that 
History 101 is the same in every college, and they can transfer 
when they feel so inclined, even after they get out of junior 
college? 

MS. HERNANDEZ: The first meeting I attended a 
month-and-a-half ago, this issue came up. And that was one of 
the issues that I brought up, the issue of uniformity of 
numbering of classes so that it's the same for all colleges, and 
that all colleges, community colleges, you know have the same 
classes, the same numbering of classes, so it's easier for 
students. And also, the availability of the classes that they 



16 



can take so they can transfer. 

And in my statement, that's one of the six issues 
that I'm going to put a lot of attention on. 

SENATOR KARNETTE: Thank you. 

Move it. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Moved by Senator Karnette. 



Call the roll 



Board, 



SECRETARY WEBB: Senator Karnette. 

SENATOR KARNETTE: Aye. 

SECRETARY WEBB: Karnette Aye. Senator Knight. 

SENATOR KNIGHT: Aye. 

SECRETARY WEBB: Knight Aye. Senator Johnson. 

SENATOR JOHNSON: Aye. 

SECRETARY WEBB: Johnson Aye. Senator Burton. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Aye. 

SECRETARY WEBB: Burton Aye. 

[Thereafter, SENATOR ROMERO'S 
Aye vote was added, making the 

final vote five to zero.] 
CHAIRMAN BURTON: Congratulations to you. 
MS. HERNANDEZ: Thank you. 
CHAIRMAN BURTON: Robert Moore, Community College 



Do you want to cut to the chase on Cal Grants? 

MR. MOORE: On the issue of Cal Grants, it's my 
understanding that the Chancellor's office has been diligently 
sending out information to all available sources that could use 
it. 



17 



And the $11 million that's in the budget is there 
for the purpose of enabling people on all the campuses to be 
better positioned to work with these students. 

Apparently, there's only been one administrator 
in the system that dealt with Cal Grants, and this money will 
enable far more people to participate in making sure these 
students are being served. It is a high priority for the Board. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: I don't know if you have to 
deal with it in order to just get the information out and say -- 
who is that guy who advertises on t.v., free money? You know 
that ad. 

And I would think that an important thing also is 
not just the students at the community college level, or in the 
community college system, but high school students, especially 
in lower income areas. 

And I would hope, and I think the person from the 
Chancellor's office would get hold of the presidents, have them, 
you know, make it out to the various school principals, and let 
them make it available. 

Any other questions, Members of the Committee? 
We beat that horse to death. 

SENATOR JOHNSON: Yes, we have beaten it to 
death, but I'm going to give it one more kick. 

It seems to me so utterly simple to design 
camera-ready copy. Spend a little money. You don't need to 
spend $11 million. Spend a little money for camera-ready copy 
and send it around to every community college president in the 
state, every community college district in the state, and say, 



18 



you know, we urge you to consider putting this in the next piece 
of mail that you put out. We encourage you to consider 
obtaining lists of graduating high school seniors and see that 
some version of this is sent to them. And here it is, camera- 
ready. 

It's simple, and it doesn't require a lot of 
counselors running around, having meetings, and discussing 
outreach, and so on. Just, put the damn mail out. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Any other questions, Members of 



the Committee 



SENATOR JOHNSON: Move. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Moved by Senator Johnson. Call 



the roll 



Do you have family here? 
MR. MOORE: No. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Any opposition? Hearing none, 
support will be duly acknowledged. 

Call the roll. 



SECRETARY WEBB: Senator Karnette. Senator 



Knight 



SENATOR KNIGHT: Aye. 

SECRETARY WEBB: Knight Aye. Senator Johnson. 
SENATOR JOHNSON: Aye. 

SECRETARY WEBB: Johnson Aye. Senator Burton. 
CHAIRMAN BURTON: Aye. 

Without objection, all Members on the roll will 
be recorded as Aye. 

[Thereupon SENATORS KARNETTE 



19 



and ROMERO were recorded as 

Aye votes, making the final 

vote five to zero.] 
CHAIRMAN BURTON: Thank you. Congratulations 
MR. MOORE: Thank you. 
[Thereupon this portion of the 
Senate Rules Committee hearing 
was terminated at approximately. 
2:44 P.M. ] 

--00O00 — 



20 



CERTIFICATE OF SHORTHAND REPORTER 



I, EVELYN J. MIZAK, a Shorthand Reporter of the State 
of California, do hereby certify: 

That I am a disinterested person herein; that the 
foregoing transcript of the Senate Rules Committee hearing was 
reported verbatim in shorthand by me, Evelyn J. Mizak, and 
thereafter transcribed into typewriting. 

I further certify that I am not of counsel or 
attorney for any of the parties to said hearing, nor in any way 
interested in the outcome of said hearing. 

IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set my hand this 



A 



day of ' )'17s? 



, 2001 




/> 



^^-<1 



:ak 



EVELYN J. MIZi 
Shorthand Reporter 



426-R 
Additional copies of this publication may be purchased for $3.00 per copy 
(includes shipping and handling) plus current California sales tax. 

Senate Publications 

1020 N Street, Room B-53 

Sacramento, CA 95814 

(916)327-2155 

Make checks payable to SENATE RULES COMMITTEE. 
Please include Stock Number 426-R when ordering. 



■^HEARING 

SENATE RULES COMMITTEE 

STATE OF CALIFORNIA 




DOCUMENTS DEPT. 

SAN FRANCISCO 
PUBLIC LIBRARY 



STATE CAPITOL 

ROOM 3191 

SACRAMENTO, CALIFORNIA 

MONDAY, MAY14, 2001 
1:37 PM. 



427-R 



SENATE RULES COMMITTEE 



STATE OF CALIFORNIA 



HEARING 



STATE CAPITOL 



ROOM 3191 



SACRAMENTO, CALIFORNIA 



MONDAY, MAY 14, 2001 



1:37 P.M 



Reported by: 



Evelyn J. Mizak 
Shorthand Reporter 



11 



APPEARANCES 

MEMBERS PRESENT 

SENATOR JOHN BURTON, Chair 

SENATOR BETTY KARNETTE 

SENATOR WILLIAM KNIGHT 

SENATOR GLORIA ROMERO 

MEMBERS ABSENT 

SENATOR ROSS JOHNSON, Vice Chair 

STAFF PRESENT 
GREG SCHMIDT, Executive Officer 
PAT WEBB, Committee Secretary 

NETTIE SABELHAUS, Consultant on Governor's Appointments 
SUSIE SWATT, Consultant to SENATOR JOHNSON 
TIM SHELLEY, Consultant to SENATOR KARNETTE 
CHRIS BURNS, Consultant to SENATOR KNIGHT 
RYAN SHERMAN, Consultant to SENATOR ROMERO 

ALSO PRESENT 

DEMETRIOS A. BOUTRIS 
Commissioner of Corporations 

PERRY KENNY 

California State Employees Association 

JAMES W. HAMLET, Warden 

Correctional Training Facility, Soledad 

SENATOR BRUCE McPHERSON 

CONRAD APONTE, JR., Chairperson 

CAC, Salinas Valley State Prison and Correctional 

Training Facility, Soledad 

RICHARD ORTIZ, Mayor 
City of Soledad 



Ill 



JERRY SMITH, Mayor 
City of Seaside 

MIKE BIGGS, Local Chapter President 
CCPOA, Soledad 

ANTONIO TONY VALDEZ, Past Chapter President 
Chapter 29, CCPOA 

GERALD HENARES, Chief Steward 
CSEA, Soledad 

ANDY HSIA-CORON, Chair 
Bargaining Unit 3 , SEIU 

BARBARA POWERS, Member 
Correctional Institutions Committee 
CSEA 

MARC BATISTA, Officer Member 
Correctional Institutions Committee 
CSEA 

GERALD ATCHLEY, Supervisor 
Correctional Education Program, CTF 

JOHN LAWSON, Member 

California Transportation Commission 

SENATOR JIM COSTA 

KIRK BREED 
Beneto Inc . 

KIRK LINDSEY, Member 

California Transportation Commission 

SENATOR DICK MONTEITH 

MEL ASSAGAI 

California Trucking Association 

DIANE McKENNA, Member 

California Transportation Commission 



IV 



SENATOR BYRON SHER 



WILL KEMPTON 

Santa Clara Valley Transportation Authority 



V 

INDEX 

Page 
Proceedings 1 

Governor ' s Appointees : 

DEMETRIOS A. BOUTRIS 

Commissioner of Corporations 1 

Background and Goals 1 

Questions by CHAIRMAN BURTON re: 

Excess Fund Balance in State 

Corporations Fund 2 

Plans for Fund Balance 2 

Amount of Excess 3 

Questions by SENATOR KNIGHT re: 

Trend of Businesses Leaving State 3 

Questions by SENATOR ROMERO re: 

Pay Day Lenders and Support for 

Perata Bill 4 

Questions by SENATOR KARNETTE re: 

Amount in Corporations Fund 5 

Ability to Use the Excess Money 5 

Witness in Support: 

PERRY KENNY 

California State Employees Association 6 

Motion to Confirm 6 

Committee Action 6 



VI 



JAMES W. HAMLET, Warden 

Correctional Training Facility, Soledad 7 

Introduction and Support by 

SENATOR BRUCE McPHERSON 7 

Opening Statement 7 

Questions by SENATOR KNIGHT re: 

Capacity of Facility 8 

Questions by CHAIRMAN BURTON re: 

Housing of Inmates above Capacity 8 

Questions by SENATOR KNIGHT re: 

Two per Cell Housing 9 

Questions by CHAIRMAN BURTON re: 

Housing of Excess Capacity Prisoners 9 

Use of Day Rooms for Housing Inmates 10 

Questions by SENATOR ROMERO re: 

Education Programs Offered and 

Notification of Programs to Inmates 10 

Questions by SENATOR KARNETTE re: 

Sufficiency of Teacher Staffing 11 

Questions by CHAIRMAN BURTON re: 

Other Housing for Excess Capacity 

Prisoners 11 

Use of Gym for Housing 12 

Possibility of Using Portable Cells 12 

Witnesses in Support: 

PERRY KENNY 13 



VI 1 



CONRAD APONTE, JR. , Chairperson 

CAC, Salinas Valley State Prison and 

Correctional Training Facility, Soledad 13 

RICHARD ORTIZ, Mayor 

City of Soledad 13 

JERRY SMITH, Mayor 

City of Seaside 14 

MIKE BIGGS, Chapter President 

CCPOA, Soledad 15 

ANTONIO TONY VALDEZ, Past Chapter President 

Chapter 29, CCPOA 15 

GERALD HENARES, Chief Steward 

CSEA, Soledad 16 

Witnesses in Opposition: 

ANDY HSIA-CORON, Chair 

Bargaining Unit 3, SEIU Local 1000, CSEA 16 

BARBARA POWERS, Member 

Correctional Institution Committee, CSEA 17 

MARC BATISTA, Officer Member 

Correctional Institution Committee, CSEA 19 

Rebuttal by MR. HAMLET 21 

Response by MR. BATISTA 21 

Questions by CHAIRMAN BURTON re: 

Warden' s Response to Group' s Concerns 22 

Availability of Telephones for 

Teachers 22 

Response by MS . POWERS 23 

Response by MR. HSIA-CORON 25 

Possibility of Giving Teachers 

Dial-out Codes for Telephones 26 



Vlll 



Inspector General Looking into 

Allegations of Retaliation 27 

Suggestion by CHAIRMAN BURTON re: 

Committee Move Confirmation to Senate 

Floor without Recommendation 27 

Rebuttal Witnesses in Support : 

GERALD ATCHLEY, Supervisor 

Correctional Education Program, CTF 28 

Telephone Issue 29 

Retaliation Issue 29 

MIKE BIGGS 30 

GERALD HENARES 30 

Motion to Move Confirmation to Senate 

Floor without Recommendation 31 

Committee Action 31 

Request by CHAIRMAN BURTON re: 

Warden Submit Report on Telephone 

Problem and Other Problems 32 

JOHN ROBERT LAWSON, Member 

California Transportation Commission 32 

Introduction and Support by 

SENATOR JIM COSTA 32 

Opening Statement 33 

Questions by CHAIRMAN BURTON re: 

Discussion on Financing Rebuilding of 

Bay Bridge 34 

Questions by SENATOR KNIGHT re: 

Need to Widen Highways 138, 58 and 3 95 35 



IX 



Plans of Commission 35 

Governor's Congestion Relief Program 36 

Palmdale International Airport 36 

Questions by SENATOR ROMERO re: 

View on Completion of Highway 710 

Project 38 

Look at Alternatives to Completion 39 

Questions by SENATOR KARNETTE re: 

State' s Role in Monitoring Locals 40 

Witness in Support : 

KIRK BREED 

Beneto Tankline 41 

Motion to Confirm 41 

Committee Action 41 

KIRK LINDSEY, Member 

California Transportation Commission 41 

Introduction and Support by 

SENATOR JIM COSTA, and on behalf of 

CONGRESSMAN GARY CONDIT 41 

Opening Statement 42 

Questions by SENATOR ROMERO re: 

Relationship with Los Angeles County 
Metropolitan Transportation Authority 42 

MTA' s Alleged Anti-union Tactics 43 

Statement in Support by 

SENATOR DICK MONTEITH 43 



Questions by SENATOR KARNETTE re: 

Ways Trucking Industry Could Relieve 

California' s Congestion Problem 44 

Questions by SENATOR KNIGHT re: 

Cooperation during ' 84 Olympics 

Versus Today 46 

Highways 138, 58, 395 47 

Suggestions to Move STIP Projects 

Forward 48 

Motion to Confirm 49 

Witness in Support : 

MEL ASSAGAI 

California Trucking Association 49 

Committee Action 50 

DIANE McKENNA, Member 

California Transportation Commission 50 

Introduction and Support by 

SENATOR BYRON SHER 50 

Opening Statement 51 

Questions by SENATOR KNIGHT re: 

Highways 138, 58, 395 52 

Questions by CHAIRMAN BURTON re: 

Thoughts on Bay Bridge 52 

Extension of Tolls 52 

Questions by SENATOR ROMERO re: 

Short-term and Long-term Goals 54 



XI 



Questions by SENATOR KARNETTE re: 

Expiring Sales Taxes 56 

California's Share of Federal 

Transportation Funding 57 

Witness in Support : 

WILL KEMPTON 

Santa Clara Valley Transportation Authority 57 

Motion to Confirm 58 

Questions by CHAIRMAN BURTON re: 

Cherry Orchards in Sunnyvale 58 

Committee Action 60 

Termination of Proceedings 60 

Certificate of Reporter 61 



P-R-O-C-E-E-D-I-N-G-S 
--00O00 — 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: First appointee, Demetrios 
Boutris, our Commissioner of Corporations. 

MR. BOUTRIS: Good morning, Mr. Chairman, good 
afternoon. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Good afternoon, Commissioner. 

MR. BOUTRIS: Mr. Chairman, Committee Members, 
I'll keep this very brief. My name is Demetrios Boutris. I'm 
honored to appear before you and to share my thoughts about the 
Department of Corporations. 

As you well know, the Department has regulatory 
licensing and enforcement authority over a wide variety of 
business transactions that impact the lives of Calif ornians . It 
is the last line of defense for many of the most significant 
financial transactions that Californians make for mortgages, to 
escrows, to consumer loans, to investments and retirement 
plans . 

If I am confirmed as Commissioner, the Department 
will have two clear goals. First, protecting California's 
investors while not stifling business activity with unnecessary 
red tape, and reaching out to seniors and under-represented 
communities to help open the door to financial security. 

We have had the opportunity to meet with 
Committee Members and their staff and to answer some of their 
questions. I hope to do so again in the future. 

I also will keep my remarks very brief. I ask 
that my previously submitted written statement be entered into 



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the record. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Without objection. 

MR. BOUTRIS: And I am happy to answer any of the 
Committee's questions. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Thank you, Commissioner. 

Right now you have an excess fund balance which 
you inherited in the Corporation Fund, which I guess was due to 
certain filing fees that were effective July 1st, 1998. Last 
year during the budget hearings -- and this was all before you 
were there; in fact, being there with short money, we probably 
want to have you keep the money. 

Is that money, money that the General Fund can 



steal? 



Senator 



nothing? 



MR. BOUTRIS: That's not my understanding, 



CHAIRMAN BURTON: It's got to stay there or 



MR. BOUTRIS: Yes, sir. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Well, then what plans do you 
have, or have you had a chance since you've been there to figure 
out how you're going to decrease fees in the future? 

MR. BOUTRIS: Thank you for the opportunity to 
address that question, Senator. I know a number of Senators and 
Members from the other body have expressed the same question. 

We do have a very large fund balance in the 
State Corporations Fund. This morning, we have forwarded a 
specific proposal to the Senate Budget Subcommittee, Sub 4, 
Senator Polanco, to reduce filing fees under the securities law 



in a reasonable and equitable manner. We believe -- we've given 
four alternatives, and I would ask Mr. Kenneth there, our Chief 
Deputy, to give copies to the Members if they wish copies. 

My understanding is that the Budget Subcommittee 
will review this proposal during the May Revise and reach its 
decisions . 

We want to emphasize that the large fund balance 
that we do have in the fund only relates to the Investment 
Program and not to the Lender Fiduciary Program. We have 
outlined for the Senators in Sub 4, four different options. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: How much money is their 
surplus? 

MR. BOUTRIS: Approximately $24 million. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: We have this for the record. 

Senator Knight. 

SENATOR KNIGHT: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

How are you today? 

MR. BOUTRIS: Good, thank you, Senator. 

SENATOR KNIGHT: Good. 

That 24 million, that won't be enough to keep the 
lights on; will it. 

[Laughter. ] 

MR. BOUTRIS: Probably not, Senator, but it is 

special fund. 

SENATOR KNIGHT: In your opinion, as you look at 
business around the state, and the effects of various 
legislative actions on business, do you see a trend of business 
leaving or coming into the State of California? 



1 MR. BOUTRIS: So far, Senator, what I've seen 

2 from the Technology Trade and Commerce Department, Secretary 
Hatamiya's numbers show that no businesses left California while 
the Governor has been at the helm. I don't see a trend. 

5 SENATOR KNIGHT: None? No business? None of the 

6 businesses have left California? 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: There was a dry cleaner in my 

8 neighborhood that moved. 

9 [Laughter.] 

10 MR. BOUTRIS: I would modify that to be no 

11 significant businesses, but I believe Secretary Hatamiya issued 

12 a report in the past several weeks to that effect, sir. 

13 SENATOR KNIGHT: Thank you. 

14 MR. BOUTRIS: Thank you, Senator. 

15 CHAIRMAN BURTON: Senator Romero. 

16 SENATOR ROMERO: Thank you. 

17 There's an article in today's Los Angeles Times 

18 regarding pay day lenders. The L.A. Times refers to them as 

19 legal loan sharks. There are more of these than there are 
McDonald's and Burger Kings in California. There's a great 

21 number in the district that I represent in East Los Angeles. 

22 As Commissioner of the Department of 
Corporations, can you tell me if you support the Perata bill 

24 that the Times does address, and what you can do as Commissioner 
to protect low-income consumers from these types of companies? 

26 MR. BOUTRIS: I want to thank the Senator for 

that important question. Of course, we discussed it with your 

28 staff and yourself just last week. 






Pay day lending is a difficult issue on both 
sides of the aisle. I have to say, I understand your concerns, 
particularly in your community. 

The check cashers that make pay day loans are 
exempt from the laws of my Department. They're subject to the 
oversight of the Attorney General. 

But more importantly, our Department will 
continue to provide technical advice to yourself and any other 
Member of the Legislature to ensure that an appropriate 
regulatory framework for this industry exists out there. I know 
that a number of bills are moving through this body and the 
other body. We want to be open to technical assistance. 

We have assisted in the past, drafting various 
consumer protections, including prohibiting unfair and deceptive 
practices and enhancing disclosure with respect to legislation 
authored by Senator Perata. 

This, as you know, is a matter of personal 
concern to me, even beyond the jurisdiction of the Department. 
So, if we can be helpful to you and the other Senators with 
technical assistance, we'll be glad to do that. 

SENATOR ROMERO: Thank you. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Senator Karnette. 

SENATOR KARNETTE: When you were talking about 
the money you have, is there any way that that excess funding — 
how many million did you say? 

MR. BOUTRIS: I believe about 24, Senator. 

SENATOR KARNETTE: Is there any way that money 
could be used for something, or given to some agency or some 



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group so that that would release other monies that they could 
use in other ways? 

In other words, you get what I'm saying, to help 
somebody get sort of a transfer going here. 

MR. BOUTRIS: Thank you for that question, 
Senator. 

The Department of Finance has asked that question 
several ways to both their lawyers and in my previous capacity. 
I don't believe there is a way to do that. But, I'd certainly 
be open to that if the Department of Finance — 

SENATOR KARNETTE: Think creatively. 

MR. BOUTRIS: Yes, ma'am. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Witnesses in support. 

MR. KENNY: Perry Kenny, California State 
Employees Association, also a corporation. We stand in support 
of this nomination. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Any witnesses in opposition? 
Hearing none, I'll move the nomination. 

Secretary, call the roll. 

SECRETARY WEBB: Senator Karnette. 

SENATOR KARNETTE: Aye. 



SECRETARY WEBB 
SENATOR KNIGHT 
SECRETARY WEBB 
SENATOR ROMERO 



Karnette Aye. Senator Knight 

Aye. 

Knight Aye. Senator Romero. 

Aye. 

Romero Aye. Senator Burton. 



SECRETARY WEBB 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Aye. 

SECRETARY WEBB: Burton Aye. Four to zero. 



CHAIRMAN BURTON: Congratulations. 

MR. BOUTRIS: Thank you, Senator. Thank you for 
your time. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: James Hamlet, Warden, 
Correctional Training Facility, Soledad. 

Senator McPherson. 

SENATOR McPHERSON: Thank you, Mr. Chairman and 
Members. My name is Senator McPherson. 

I'm here to speak on behalf of Mr. Jim Hamlet to 
be Warden of the Correctional Training Facility at Soledad. 

As you are aware, Mr. Hamlet appeared before this 
Committee two weeks ago, and I would like to reintroduce him to 
the Committee. 

He has spent a lifetime in Corrections, or a life 
in Corrections, his adult life in Corrections, and has very good 
standing in the community. He has expressed to me his desire 
toward making the Correctional Training Facility the best it can 
be. 

I know he is committed to the task and the job 
that's before him. He is highly respected within the facility 
itself and within the organization itself, as well as in the 
community. He is held in very high regard and esteem, and I 
recommend that he be confirmed by the Committee. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Thank you. 

Warden. 

MR. HAMLET: Mr. Chairman and Members, I would 
like to thank the Committee for your indulgence in reconsidering 
my nomination as Warden of the Correctional Training Facility. 



8 



1 I would also like to state that I meant no 

2 disrespect to the Committee in my earlier responses. 

3 I'd also like to express my thanks to Senator 
McPherson for his continuing support of me and the institution 
throughout this process, and for him being here today. 

6 CHAIRMAN BURTON: Well, actually we didn't 

reconsider it. You were never denied confirmation. We just 

B sort of put the hearing over. 
9 I don't have any questions. 

10 Senator Knight. 

11 SENATOR KNIGHT: Just one. 

12 In looking at the figures, the facility looks 

13 like it's about 214 percent of capacity? 

14 MR. HAMLET: Correct. 

15 SENATOR KNIGHT: Is that based on one person per 

16 cell or two? 

17 MR. HAMLET: Two people, two persons per cell. 
15 SENATOR KNIGHT: Thank you. 

19 CHAIRMAN BURTON: It's two people ~ 

20 MR. HAMLET: Two persons per cell. 

21 CHAIRMAN BURTON: And it's 200 percent — 

22 MR. HAMLET: Two hundred fourteen percent. 

23 CHAIRMAN BURTON: — even at two people per cell? 

24 MR. HAMLET: Yes. 

25 CHAIRMAN BURTON: So what do you do with the 

26 other people? Where are the other people? 

27 MR. HAMLET: No, we were designed for 3,000, and 

28 we have 7,000 out there. 



CHAIRMAN BURTON: I'm just trying to understand 



this 



sir 



MR. HAMLET: Maybe I misunderstood the question, 



CHAIRMAN BURTON: You're two persons per cell; 
right? 

MR. HAMLET: Correct, sir. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: And even with two per cell, two 
people in a cell, you're at 200 percent? 

MR. HAMLET: Of the original design. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: So, where are those other 
people, or was it designed for one -- 

MR. HAMLET: It was designed for just one. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: One inmate, I see. So, 
everybody is in a cell? 

MR. HAMLET: Yes. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Go ahead, Senator Knight. 

SENATOR KNIGHT: So, if the design capacity was 
3200, and you've got 7,000 in there, that's with two per cell, 
and you're 14 percent over with two per cell. So, that's not 
too bad, huh? 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: It ain't good. 

SENATOR KNIGHT: Well, two people in a cell? 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: If they bunch up, there's 

trouble . 

Where's the other 14 percent? In the 

dormitories? 

MR. HAMLET: Yes. We have some emergency beds 



10 



1 and also in our day rooms. 

2 CHAIRMAN BURTON: In what kind of rooms? 

MR. HAMLET: In day rooms. We have in Central 

4 Facility, we have approximately 20 inmates in each of our day 

rooms. That's part of our regular wings. 
6 CHAIRMAN BURTON: And then, after they get up, 

the beds are moved, and the inmates go into the day rooms, or 

8 what? 

9 MR. HAMLET: No, the day rooms are closed as far 

10 as day room activities. It's just for cell living. 

11 CHAIRMAN BURTON: That's not too good for morale 

12 in the prison; is it? 

13 MR. HAMLET: No, sir. 

14 CHAIRMAN BURTON: Senator Romero. 

15 SENATOR ROMERO: Thank you. 

16 Can you describe some of the education programs 

17 that you offer, and are these classes filled to capacity? 

18 What's being done to let the inmates know about these types of 

19 classes? 

20 MR. HAMLET: We have waiting lists for all our 

21 classes. 

22 The type of classes we have, vocational program 
range from masonry, computer refurbishing, landscaping, 

24 upholstery -- we have about 19 various programs — horticulture 

25 landscaping, and there is a waiting list for those, anywhere 
from 30 up to 140. The 140 waiting list is for the computer 

27 refurbishing. 

2 8 SENATOR ROMERO: How do the inmates know about 



11 



the classes? 

MR. HAMLET: We put them on through the inmate 
television. We have a cable system throughout the institution. 

SENATOR ROMERO: Thank you. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Senator Karnette. 

SENATOR KARNETTE: Education, on the education 
question, do you always have enough teachers, or do you need 
teachers? 

MR. HAMLET: We haven't had a problem recruiting 
We have a problem recruiting other staff, but not 



teachers . 
teachers . 



SENATOR KARNETTE: How many teachers do you have? 
MR. HAMLET: Right now, we' have approximately 60. 
SENATOR KARNETTE: And they're full-time 



everyday? 



MR. HAMLET: Yes. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Where else could you put the 14 
percent? Fourteen percent is how many people? How many have 
you got in the day rooms, roughly? 

MR. HAMLET: We have 20 in the day rooms, each 
day room. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: How many day rooms? 

MR. HAMLET: We have five. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: So, you're a hundred over. 

MR. HAMLET: One hundred, yes. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Is there anything you could do 
with them besides closing down the day rooms? 

MR. HAMLET: No. We're at capacity. We've used 



LZ 



every bit of the institution that we could for housing. We're 
in the gyms, and we're capacity in our gyms. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: And so the gym is closed, too? 

MR. HAMLET: Yes, sir. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: So, anything that would allow 
the inmates to either let off nonviolent steam, shall we say, or 
just kind of do something, that's all gone? 

MR. HAMLET: No, we let them — they go to the 
yard. We have activities, programmed activities out in the 
yard. North Facility, we have two yards. At Central Facility, 
we have one large yard, and they go out there. 

We do have physical education teachers that do 
put on programs, activities. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Does it make any sense to do 
like they do in schools, where they have portable classrooms? 
You could have like portable cells or something, so that these 
other activities that are probably good for the morale of the 
prisoners, therefore good for their behavior, would be available 
to them? That doesn't make sense, or what? 

MR. HAMLET: We really ~ 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: I know it's not your call 
anyway, but what do you think? 

MR. HAMLET: Given the physical plant of our 
facility with its age, it wouldn't really work for us. Just not 
enough space. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Are there any new witnesses in 
support that weren't here last time? Were you here last time? 
You were here but never got heard. 



13 



Witnesses in support, briefly, come on up. 

MR. KENNY: Mr. Chairman, I wanted to speak on 
behalf of the California State Employees Association. 

It has not in fact taken an official position, 
but I know Mr. Hamlet when I worked at Soledad actually years 
ago. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: You're in support. 

MR. KENNY: In support. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Next. 

MR. APONTE: Senators, Committee Members, I'm in 
support of Mr. Hamlet to be confirmed today. I know him. I'm 
Conrad Aponte, Junior. I'm the Chairperson for the CAC for both 
prisons, Salinas Valley State Prison and Correctional Training 
Facility. 

I've known this man for a long time. He is very 
well qualified to be a warden. He's very well liked and 
respected both by his staff and the community. 

As such, I would like for the Committee to take 
in consideration his being confirmed today. Thank you very 
much. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Thank you, sir. 

MAYOR ORTIZ: Senator Burton, I'm Richard Ortiz. 
I'm with the City of Soledad. I'm the Mayor of the City of 

Soledad. 

I'm here in support of Mr. Hamlet for Warden. 
I' ve seen him come up the ranks within the Department of 
Corrections, and being through the business management of it, he 
held the facility in the black, which should be something to 



14 

think about because he knows what budgets are. And with the 
restraints that we have in today in regards to the spendings 
with the state in Corrections, he knows the system, and he's 
done very well for CTF. And the City of Soledad is in support 
of his nomination. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Thank you, Mr. Mayor. 

Yes, sir. 

MAYOR SMITH: Senator McPherson [sic] my name is 
Jerry Smith. I'm the Mayor of the City of Seaside. I'm also in 
support of Mr. Hamlet for Warden. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: How many people in Seaside now? 

MAYOR SMITH: Thirty-two thousand, sir. We 
dropped a little from Fort Ord closure, which was 36,700. We're 
now about 32,000. 

I think we're looking at the rehabilitation of 
Fort Ord. We hope to be able to bring that about as far as 
affordable housing and job creation. 

Mr. Hamlet has added to that, inasmuch as the 
inmate work crews have come to the City of Seaside, assist us in 
terms of renovating some of the properties. Just recently 
Mr. Hamlet allowed us to take care of some weed abatement, trash 
abatement. He saved the city in an area of $4,000 in one week. 

We look for his support. He's not only rendered 
that to the City of Seaside, but as you know, the Monterey 
Peninsula represents 12 different cities, ranging about 450,000 
people. The Correctional Training Facility has been 
instrumental in terms of cost savings to all the jurisdictions. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Do they get paid for that or 






15 



what? The inmates. 

MR. HAMLET: They just get their regular pay 
number. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Pardon me? 

MR. HAMLET: They get a regular pay number, sir. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Is that voluntary or conscript? 

MR. HAMLET: No, actually they volunteer for it. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: So, it's fully voluntary just 
to get out and get a chance to escape, okay. 

Thank you, Mr. Mayor. 
[Laughter . ] 

MAYOR SMITH: Thank you very much. 

MR. BIGGS: My name is Mike Biggs. I'm the 
current CCPOA local Chapter President for Soledad. 

I'm here today in support of Mr. Hamlet's 
confirmation as the Warden. In my past 12 years there, I've had 
many dealings with Mr. Hamlet. And in every dealing, I can say 
that I've dealt with an honest and fair person. I can tell you 
that we might not always disagreed -- or agreed on issues, but 
none of the disagreements were ever taken personally in 
retaliations . 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: You're in support? 

MR. BIGGS: Yes, sir. 

MR. VALDEZ: My name is Antonio Tony Valdez, and 
I am the Chapter President, or past Chapter President for 
Chapter 29. 

Ladies and gentlemen of this panel, if anybody 
knows budgetary constraints it's Mr. Hamlet. He does an 



16 



excellent job with the money he's appropriated. His leadership 
is clearly noted, as you can see by the people in attendance. 

So, I clearly support Mr. Hamlet's nomination. 

MR. HENARES: Gerald Henares, teacher at Soledad, 
CTF. Also, I'm the chief steward for CSEA at Soledad. 

As a teacher, I'm on the Recruitment Teaching 
Committee. We do three to four job fairs, and Mr. Hamlet's been 
very supportive of the people we recruited and brought in, and 
got them on board extremely fast. 

I am in complete support with him and hope to 
continue working with him. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Thank you. 

Witnesses in opposition? 

Move the nomination to the Floor. 

Excuse me. 

MR. HSIA-CORON: Good afternoon. My name is 
Andy Hsia-Coron. I'm the Chair of Bargaining Unit 3, which 
represents the teachers and librarians in state service for SEIU 
Local 1000, CSEA. 

We are not in favor of confirmation of Warden 
Hamlet for several reasons. One, basically, under his long 
administration, education has been diminished considerably 
during those years, where we went from close to 120 teachers to 
less than 50 teachers. 

The Department's operations manual requires our 
Head of Education to be on his Executive Committee, and he is 
not . 

And in the recent Western Association of Schools 









17 



and Colleges accreditation, the group coming around expressed 
their observation that there was little support from the upper 
administration for our education programs. 

I shared these observations with your staff on 
May 2nd. 

On May 3rd, Ken Hurdle, the ombudsman from the 
Department of Corrections, called me to go over my issues, and I 
raised them. 

And then on May 4th, I went into the institution, 
and I was served up with an investigation for an event that 
happened December 12th. 

My sense is that that's kind of par for the 
course . 

So, for two reasons. One, that there isn't a lot 
of support for education at the institution. And education is 
vital for public safety in these prisons, for the safety of the 
institution, and for the hope that somebody will come out better 
when they leave. 

And second, when you raise issues, there's a 
question of reprisal. And we have filed an unfair labor 
practice with PERB today. 

Thank you for your time. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: When did the unfair labor 
practice occur, yesterday? 

MR. HSIA-CORON: No, the unfair labor practice 
occurred May 4th, and our lawyers completed their — their work 
on it today and filed it. 

MS. POWERS: Barbara Powers. I'm a member of 



the Correctional Institution Committee. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: At Soledad? 

MS. POWERS: No, at CSEA. I personally work at 
Mill Creek State Prison. 

However, I previously worked at Soledad. I 
noticed that we had some members here today that I hadn't seen 
for long time in support of Mr. Hamlet. I think that's very 
nice. 

It's a pleasure to see the Mayor of Soledad 
here. I haven't see seen him for sometime, and his wife, of 
course, is Mr. Hamlet's secretary. 

The CIC Committee has some -- some real 
concerns. On January 17th, the Correctional ' Institution 
Committee met with Warden Hamlet after a brief tour of his 
facility. One of the critical issues we addressed with him was 
the fact that the vocational instructors do not have access to 
outside telephone lines. 

Part of their job is to encourage employment for 
their students. They absolutely need access to vendors. They 
need access to the trade advisory committees. They need access 
to potential employers, not to mention the fact that they still 
need access to the union and its members. 

When we brought this issue up, Mr. Hamlet assured 
us that he would look into this issue to see what could be 
done. That was January 17th. And approximately four months 
later, no one on the committee, nor any steward that I'm aware 
of, has been apprised of any changes or any roadblocks to 
addressing this issue. 



19 



We have a list of members and stewards that has 
been faxed to us, requesting us to come forward and oppose 
Mr. Hamlet's confirmation. Out of fear of reprisal, they 
declined coming and appearing themselves. 

The Department of Corrections has somewhat of a 
reputation in the area of reprisal. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: You're against the nomination? 

MS. POWERS: Yes. 

In reference to the investigation and the unfair 
that was just put on Mr. Hsia-Coron, there is a specific 
requirement in our Department manual that the institution or the 
warden get permission from the Director of Corrections before 
they — they begin an investigation on a union elected officer. 

We've requested a copy of that request and 
permission form, and as of this point, we have not received any 
copy of that. 

We have some minor issues from our members that 
have not been dealt with that have impacted them negatively. 

We really have some -- some serious concerns. We 
know that Mr. Hamlet's been with Soledad for a very long time. 
But our members and CSEA civil service are very concerned about 
the — the relationship between the prison and the warden and 
the union representing the non-custody members. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Thank you. 

Sir. 

MR. BATISTA: Good afternoon. My name is Marc 
Batista. I'm the officer assigned to the CIC, Correctional 
Institutions Committee. 



20 



This committee was actually put together by a 100 
percent unanimous vote of the council, which is the highest 
governing body of the rank and file members who work for the 
State of California. 

This committee was actually -- these two 
institutions, Soledad and Salinas Valley, were the first two 
prisons that we actually toured with this committee. We met 
with Warden Hamlet, and we addressed some of the issues that we 
had, you know, heard from our members. 

As of today, like I say, many of those issues 
have not been, you know, addressed in any way. 

One of the other concerns that we have, and I 
think really this has impacted, you know, the amount of people 
that have come in and spoke today, is that, you know, fear of 
reprisal. Reprisal in the Department of Corrections can be very 
subtle. It is -- you know, I've heard Senator Burton assure 
individuals that there would no reprisal for coming in and 
speaking against the confirmation of anyone. 

But it's very difficult on a day-to-day basis to 
be there, you know, to ensure that. And I'm sure his word is 
good, but it's just the day-to-day business that, you know, our 
members face, you know, are very fearful of reprisals. 

There is one individual who has had to contact 
the Inspector General asking for his assistance to address the 
issue of, you know, what he feels is reprisal. 

Also too, I know that we've talked to many of our 
members, and one of the things that is very important, and it is 
granted in other facilities, is flex time. Flex time which 



21 



actually allows members to adjust their schedules a little bit 
to help with, you know, individual problems that they might be 
having dealing with child care. 

We have been told that he has been, you know, 
nonsupportive in any way on this. This heavily impacts our 
members, especially our single parents who, you know, work at 
these facilities. 

And for this reason, you know, today, as the 
officer assigned, one of the four civil service division 
officers and the officer assigned to the CIC Committee, we're 
asking that this confirmation not be confirmed. 

Thank you. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Would you like to comment on 
his statements? 

MR. HAMLET: Yeah, I would. 

We had a meeting with everybody present, and it 
was about three months ago. 

After the meeting, I did check with the chief job 
steward on the issues that were brought up. And we never 
received anything back as a problem. 

Now, as far as the flex time, we have flex time 
out there. That's news to me that we don't allow it. We have 

had it. 

MR. BATISTA: Senator Burton, I'd like to clarify 
the difference between a chief job steward and actually the 
stewards. When you're dealing with an individual, and other 
ones are actually the stewards there at the work place. 

There is an individual chief job steward who did 



22 



speak in support of it, but we have basically been contacting 
our stewards there in the area, and, you know, they also, too, 
feel that, you know -- and those are the ones who signed the 
petition. Many of them, we've polled them and 80 percent of 
those we polled were asking that the confirmation not go 
forward. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: I want to get back. 

A group came in and said there is a problem. You 
talked to somebody, and they said there isn't a problem. 

Is it that the problem went away? What happened? 
I'm talking to the Warden. 

MR. HAMLET: After we had -- 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: You had a meeting. 

MR. HAMLET: Yes, sir. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: — with a group of people? 

MR. HAMLET: Yes. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: And they were saying, we've got 
some concerns or problems. 

MR. HAMLET: Yeah, they were talking about the 
telephones, yes, sir. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Let me go into that telephone 
deal . 

Why wouldn't these people be able to use the 
telephone? 

MR. HAMLET: It wasn't they couldn't use the 
telephone . 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: We don't want to get into the 
collect calls and the price of them. 



23 



[Laughter . ] 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Why can't prison personnel, in 
the official performance of their duty, use a prison phone to 
call out to, hopefully, get some inmate a job when they get out 
so they don't rob a guy and come back in? 

MR. HAMLET: What the policy had been at the 
Correctional Training Facility is, the phones down in the 
classrooms did not have outside capabilities because there's a 
lot of inmates in the area. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: I understand that, but I mean, 
how about, do teachers have an office? Do teachers have a 
teachers lounge? Teachers have a place where they can go to the 
Warden's office and make calls? 

MR. HAMLET: There's phones available in the 
administrative offices down in the Education Department. That's 
what they had been doing for all these years, using those 
phones . 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: So, the problem was, they 
wanted to be able to make outside phone calls from the 
classroom? 

MR. HAMLET: Correct, yes. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Who was the guy up here saying 
he couldn't make a phone call? Is that what you're talking 
about? You couldn't go and make them in the education 
administrative office? 

MS. POWERS: Yes, it's entirely possible to go to 
the administrative office to make the phone calls. However, 
every other institution within the state has their vocational 



24 



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instructors with the capability of making outside phone calls. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: As are the ones there, but they 
do it in an office. 

Now, you're telling me every correctional 
institution in the state has a vocational -- like they can do it 
out of the classroom? 

MS. POWERS: A large number of them. I won't 
verify that every -- 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: How about any? 

My brother taught at San Quentin, and I know he 
couldn't make a phone call. 

MS. POWERS: At Mill Creek, at Centinella, 
Women's Prison, just to name a few. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: They have phones in the 
classrooms? 

MS. POWERS: Yes. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: With outside capability? 

MS. POWERS: The inmate students are not in the 
classroom without having a staff member there with them. It 
becomes quite inconvenient — 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: This thing's getting a little 
bit farther afield than I would have hoped. 

But it doesn't seem to me to be a really 






egregious situation when, if you're the voc. ed. teacher, and I 
assume you've got more than one spur-of-the-moment phone call, 
but you might be calling several potential employers about 
several potential employees, it would seem that's what you woulc 
be doing out of the administrative offices. 



25 



MR. HSIA-CORON: Senator, can I answer that, 
because I represent the teachers. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: I wouldn't mind having the 
teachers themselves. That'd probably be the best testimony. 

MR. HSIA-CORON: I am a teacher. I've taught at 
Soledad for 17 years. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Okay. 

MR. HSIA-CORON: I'm the Chair of the bargaining 
team. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: No, just your name. 

MR. HSIA-CORON: My name is Andy Hsia-Coron, and 
I've taught at Soledad for 17 years. I'm an elected rank and 
file representative. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: You taught there. Do you still 
teach there? 

MR. HSIA-CORON: I still teach there, though less 
often because of the amount of hearings. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: All right, I understand. 

MR. HSIA-CORON: The vocational teachers help 
secure jobs for folks. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: We went all through that. I 
got that already. 

MR. HSIA-CORON: Okay. 

Basically, you've got a lot of shops, one office, 

one phone . 

The folks at most institutions work in these 
phone calls all during the day to try to secure their people 
work, because if their folks can get work, they don't come back 



26 



1 to prison. 

2 CHAIRMAN BURTON: How do you teach them in the 

3 class while you're making a phone call about work? 

4 MR. HSIA-CORON: A lot of them in a vocational 
shop are working on vocational projects. So, you can sit there 

6 at various times while they're going, when you've got everybody 
set. Sit down in your office, usually at a glass window, and 

8 you can make a call while you watch -- 

9 CHAIRMAN BURTON: So, the phone is in an office 

10 behind a glass window. 

11 MR. HSIA-CORON: Yeah, in most of the offices. 

12 CHAIRMAN BURTON: How is some inmate going to get 

13 there if that's your concern? 

14 MR. HAMLET: Because sometimes those doors are 

15 left open. Inmates have access to them. 

16 CHAIRMAN BURTON: How about giving the teacher a 

17 dial-out code? 

18 MR. HAMLET: That's something we can certainly 

19 consider. 

20 CHAIRMAN BURTON: That's not brain surgery. 

21 I mean, if the concern is that somehow an inmate 

22 is going to get to sneak into this thing, which probably if the> 

23 do that, they'll get written up for some violation of something, 

24 I would assume, and lose a privilege of some sort, I would 
2 5 ass ume . 

26 So, unless they were a little whacky, or it was 

27 some kind of a lark, they didn't think they'd get caught, but i: 

28 you just give the teachers, which we have had sometimes in 









27 



places, I have, where you have a code to dial out to get in. 
So, instead of dialing 9, they dial it. 

And also, they would dial, and each instructor 
would have a code so you know who's calling, so that some 
instructor's not calling their girlfriend up at Puget Sound. 

But I would suggest, one, you just get on that 
immediately. 

Two, as far as retaliation is concerned, the 
Inspector General is looking into that situation because that's 
something that we do not in the Legislature, in either party, 
like. Somebody comes forth, hot or cold, they should do so 
without fear of retaliation. And, you can't watch somebody 24 
hours a day, 7 days a week to do something, but if it becomes 
egregious . 

It would be my suggestion that the Committee move 
the confirmation to the Floor without recommendation pending a 
report back on how we're going to deal with the phones. And 
we're also going to check to see whether other institutions have 
the phones or not, but they should. 

I was thinking it's on the wall. If it's in an 
office that's basically closed, and you give the teacher the 
code to dial out, that would take care of that problem. 

MR. BATISTA: Senator Burton, it's much more 
easier for our teachers to make calls while they're in the 
classroom rather than — 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: I got it. We already dealt 

with that. I got it. 

MR. BATISTA: Okay. 



28 



CHAIRMAN BURTON: I can see that point. 

I was viewing teachers being in the classroom 
teaching, not shop teachers being in the office, unless the guy 
says, how do you put this piston on the drive shaft, assuming 
they're doing auto shop. 

Gerald Atchley, you're in support? 

MR. ATCHLEY: Yes, sir. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Where were you during the 
support calls? 

MR. ATCHLEY: I wasn't aware — 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: You're a rebuttal witness, are 
you? 

MR. ATCHLEY: I wasn't aware of the conflict that 
was going to come forward, and I didn't anticipate the 
situation. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Do you have anything to refute 
what they said? 

MR. ATCHLEY: Yes. 

As far as the retaliation -- 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Does your daughter work in his 
office? 

MR. ATCHLEY: Pardon me. 
[Laughter. ] 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Nothing, just trying to make 
the day go faster. 

MR. ATCHLEY: Clarification. I have no contact 
with -- I have no relative. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: I got it. 



29 



MR. ATCHLEY: I'm a little bit nervous, but just 
for your information, the gentleman that was saying that we have 
had a -- 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: And you are? 

MR. ATCHLEY: I am the Supervisor of Correctional 
Education Program. I'm over the Education Department at CTF. 

The primary issue here is two-fold. One on the 
telephones, which we are currently looking into. We have made 
some progress. One of the issues -- 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Just do it the way I said. 

MR. ATCHLEY: One of the issues the codes. There 
seem to be some technical difficulties there. We are looking 
into that possibility. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Trust me, it ain't that 
technical . 

MR. ATCHLEY: Okay. 

The other issue is retaliation. The gentleman 
that was saying that we had retaliated against him for him 
coming out against Mr. Hamlet, Andy Hsia-Coron. I wrote a 
memorandum to Mr. Hamlet back in January for an issue or an 
incident that took place in Mr. Hsia-Coron' s classroom 
requesting this investigation. Mr. Hamlet signed off on that in 
December . 

Up to that -- up to my knowledge, that simply has 
been going through the process, and it seems to have come to 
fruitation [sic] at this time. 

It has nothing to do with Mr. Hsia-Coron 's 
position for or against Mr. Hamlet. 



30 



1 Retaliation in my department, to my knowledge, 

2 does not exist. 

3 CHAIRMAN BURTON: We're going to have an 

4 independent judge of that. 

5 MR. ATCHLEY: That's fine. 

6 CHAIRMAN BURTON: Yes, sir. 

MR. BIGGS: Sir, I'm Mike Biggs. I'm a 

8 correctional sergeant at CTF. 

9 And even in the housing units with -- where they 

10 have gun coverages in offices, we do not have outside phone 

11 lines just because you want to make it a security issue. 

12 CHAIRMAN BURTON: No, we understand that. 

13 There's a difference. You're not calling to get 

14 some guy a job. Your job is to keep somebody in. 

15 Their job is, when they get out, to get them a 

16 job. So, there's two different responsibilities. 

17 I understand that. No problem. 

18 I don't need repetitive stuff, sir. We heard 

19 from you before. 

20 Come on right up. 

21 MR. HENARES: I'll make this very brief. I'm the 

22 chief -- 

23 CHAIRMAN BURTON: I just want Mr. Lawson to know, 

24 this is just a taste of what he's going to get on the CTC. 

25 MR. HENARES: Again this is Gerald Henares, the 

26 chief steward. My name was mentioned here. 

27 CHAIRMAN BURTON: Your name wasn't; your title 

28 was. 









31 



MR. HENARES: Gerald, and the last name's spelled 
H-e-n-a-r-e-s . 

I challenge the stewards survey, because it's 
not conducive of the stewards survey that I did before, prior to 
coming before this Committee. 

In fact, one steward that claims retaliation was 
not even certified until three weeks ago, since he alleged that 
for the last 18 years, his certification was lost. 

Thank you. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Thank you. 

I'd like to move the measure to the Floor without 
recommendation . 

Call the roll. 

SECRETARY WEBB: Senator Karnette. 

SENATOR KARNETTE: I'm voting on the 
recommendation? Is that right? 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: You're voting to move it to the 
Floor without recommendation. 

SENATOR KARNETTE: Aye. 

SECRETARY WEBB: Senator Knight. Senator 



Romero . 



SENATOR ROMERO: Aye. 
SECRETARY WEBB: Senator Burton 
CHAIRMAN BURTON: Aye. 



SECRETARY WEBB: 
CHAIRMAN BURTON 



Burton Aye. Three to zero. 
Thank you, sir. 



Warden, I think it would be very helpful if your 
people — and if you need a copy of the transcript of the 



32 



complaints or whatever, that we will get that to you. Then have 
a report back as soon as possible, both on how you're dealing 
with the phones and other stuff. We'll make that available to 
you, Mike. 

John Lawson, Member, California Transportation 
Commission. 

MR. LAWSON: My name is John Robert Lawson. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Senator Costa is going to give 
you a little knock-down. 

MR. LAWSON: Well, when you mentioned my name, 
you cleared the whole place out -- 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: I know that. 
[Laughter . ] 

SENATOR COSTA: Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman 
and Members of the Rules Committee. 

I'm here to formally endorse my support for 
Mr. John Lawson, who's been a native of the Valley for most of 
his life. He has an extensive transportation background, was 
nominated late last year, or last year, I should say, by 
Governor Davis to be appointed to the California Transportation 
Commission. 

All of you are very familiar with the important 
role that the California Transportation Commission plays in the 
State of California in establishing transportation priorities 
and initiatives. 

I believe that Mr. Lawson 's background in the 
transportation field through many, many years gives him the 
experience necessary to do a very good job on the Commission. 



33 



He has a host of interests on transportation, not 
withstanding his own background and experience with regards to 
transportation systems, but also is interested in creating the 
sort of intermodal transportation opportunities between our 
freeways and roads, together with our rail systems that provide 
both freight and inner city rail transportation, along with our 
air transportation systems. 

I think he has vision and boldness and 
willingness, the kind of on-the-hands experience, to figure out 
how to make things happen, and how to eliminate some of the 
inefficiencies and wastes that we have with regards to 
Commission's efforts. 

I would highly recommend your support for his 
appointment to the Commission. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: John. 

MR. LAWSON: My name is John Robert Lawson. I've 
been on the Commission for about five months. 

There's a lot to it. I've learned quite a bit on 
how the agencies function, and what goes on. 

And kind of all of us on the Commission right 
now, we're trying to streamline the different agencies that we 
have to work with. Because in Arizona, it takes approximately 
three years to build a project from start to stop, and in 
California it runs seven or eight years. 

We're learning how to speed up the projects, and 
go forward, and do a better job for the State of California. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Thank you. 

I know it's not your neighborhood, so you might 



34 



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not have focused on it. Have you focused, or has the 
Commission, any attention on the rebuilding of the Bay Bridge? 
Does that come within your sights? 

MR. LAWSON: Well, the earthquake part of it is, 
yes. It's coming in different segments right now. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: What do you think? Has the 
Commission given any discussion as to what financing plans some? 
Supposedly, there's a shortfall due to the mayors on either side 
of the Bay wanting to change the design, delaying it. 

MR. LAWSON: Being from not in the Bay Area, the 
two dollars they're charging now, that's going to go away and gc 
back to a dollar, the way I understand it. They're going to tr\ 
to keep the two dollars going. 

You know, it's not a self-paying project, so the 
State of California and the Highway Department's going to have 
to pay the extra half. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Have to jump in. 

With or without two dollar extension? 

MR. LAWSON: With or without the two dollar 
extension. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Senator Knight. 

Have you given any thought, there's a highway up 
in the high desert there. 

[Laughter. ] 

SENATOR KNIGHT: I was going to say that there 
are a number of two-lane highways in the State of 
California . 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Some of whom are in his 



35 



district . 

SENATOR KNIGHT: Some of whom are in my district, 
that have not been widened as a result of funding decreases or 
whatever, or the STIP. And the projects being pushed out year 
after year. 

But these highways have become death traps 
primarily as a result of increased traffic due to increased 
growth in the areas. And California has not kept up with them. 

Highway 138, Highway 58, and 395, they're all 
highways that need to be worked on in order to save lives and in 
order to facilitate transportation between the two populated 
areas . 

What are we doing? 

MR. LAWSON: Senator Knight, I made a very bad 
mistake, because the first CTC meeting I went to was in San 
Bernardino. And being from Fresno, I went up 58, and cut 
across, and got on 138, and I was four hours ahead of schedule, 
and I almost got late to the meeting. So, I understand one 
hundred percent what you're saying about 138. 

SENATOR KNIGHT: You're lucky you got there. 

MR. LAWSON: Well, it wasn't by the signs, I'll 
tell you, because there's no signs either. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Try the Richmond Expressway for 

that. 

SENATOR KNIGHT: Well, is there anything that's 
going to be done? Are you going to work on it, or are we going 
to move forward in that direction or what? Or is there anything 
you're going to do? 



36 



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MR. LAWSON: Well, I think that you've been 
trying to do quite a bit on it. You introduced a bill to take 
it out of the General Fund. 

SENATOR KNIGHT: That was primarily because the 
Governor decided to jump into the transportation funding 
business, projecting. 

MR. LAWSON: I think, truthfully, the Governor 
has a Governor's Relief Program. And if you would probably go 
and talk to him, it sure would be a good project to put on his 
Governor's Relief Project. 

SENATOR KNIGHT: For congestion relief? 

MR. LAWSON: Yeah. 

SENATOR KNIGHT: Is that true? 

MR. LAWSON: There's true congestion there. 

SENATOR KNIGHT: You're suggesting I go talk to 
the Governor? 

MR. LAWSON: Well, it's his Congestion Relief 



Program. 



the budget 



CHAIRMAN BURTON: That's right after you vote for 



[Laughter. ] 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Or maybe before. 

SENATOR KNIGHT: How about airports? Do you have 
anything to do with airports to support transportation? 

MR. LAWSON: Do I have anything to do with 
airports? Yeah, they bring things in front of us on the 
airports, you know. 

In fact, the LAX airport people came to us here 



37 



awhile back and talked about a $10 billion expansion. Even in 
my realm of things, $10 billion is a lot of money, especially 
for one airport. 

SENATOR KNIGHT: Did they talk about moving 
anything to Palmdale International Airport? 

MR. LAWSON: No, they didn't. I did. I brought 
that up. I said, you know -- 

SENATOR KNIGHT: Ten billion out there would do a 
whole lot. 

MR. LAWSON: I said that we would probably be 
better off to build a monorail to go from the LAX Airport to the 
Palmdale Airport and make it an international airport, and go 
forward that way. 

SENATOR KNIGHT: I don't mind a monorail, but 
certainly you can't do that before we get an airport going. 

And I would suggest that we need to move some of 
the carriers and some of the freight in that direction. And 
L.A. City Airport Department has that ability. 

MR. LAWSON: Well, this morning, while you're 
talking about it, it did come up. And it seems like Palmdale 's 
run off all the airlines they've moved out there. 

SENATOR KNIGHT: What do you mean? 

MR. LAWSON: They said that air people — 
airlines that went out there, for some reason they couldn't get 
enough revenue, or something didn't happen. 

But I am for Palmdale being a major hub of the 

airlines . 

SENATOR KNIGHT: The last one we had out there 



38 



1 that was at least partially successful went bankrupt, and not 

2 because they were at Palmdale. It was because of their 

3 activities elsewhere. 

4 They didn't stay long enough to develop a market. 
Nobody has stayed long enough to develop any kind of a market, 

6 and that's what you're going to do. 

You're not going to get a market overnight. So, 

you're going to have to accept the fact that you may lose a few 

9 dollars in the beginning until you can generate that market and 

10 convince people that there's free parking out there, and they 

11 can go places from there. 

12 CHAIRMAN BURTON: I think they need a new general 

13 manager at that airport. 

14 SENATOR KNIGHT: They don't have a general 

15 manager. 

16 [Laughter. ] 

17 CHAIRMAN BURTON: That's one of the problems. 

18 The general managers make almost one-six bits a year. 

19 SENATOR KNIGHT: Is that right? 

20 CHAIRMAN BURTON: Senator Romero. 

21 SENATOR ROMERO: Thank you. 

22 Let me ask you about a billion dollar project, 
the 710 completion activity there. Of course, it's been in the 

24 courts for some three decades. 

25 What is your view on whether or not that 710 

26 should be completed? Is it a feasible project? And have you 
looked at alternatives such as the low-build alternative as a 

28 possibility in the interim, until this legal decision is 



39 



rendered? 

MR. LAWSON: Senator Romero, I could do at lot 
better on Wednesday, because tomorrow I have scheduled all day 
to be down there. And they were going to drive us through the 
project. They're going to bring us up to speed on that 
project. And I have taken the day off tomorrow to be down there 
all day. 

The part that I do know about it, I think that, 
and just my opinion only, I think they need to go forward 
because they're impacting Pasadena and Alhambra on each end of 
the town -- I mean each end of this freeway that's never been 
built. 

SENATOR ROMERO: If I can 'just add as well, too, 
in subsequent discussions with the Alhambra City Council, they 
are looking at perhaps expansion only to Huntington Drive, as 
opposed to the completion. 

But I ' d be interested, when you take that tour 
tomorrow, to take a look at the cost for that completion, but as 
well, taking a look at the alternatives. 

The low-build, this one that's been put forward, 
I'm not sure that I'm in agreement with it, but I think it's an 
alternative that can at least address some transportation 
congestion relief right now until the court renders its 
decision. 

MR. LAWSON: Thank you, but like I say, tomorrow 
I'll know a lot more than I do right now. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Senator Karnette. 

SENATOR KARNETTE: There's a question that I have 



40 



about what role the state should play in helping cities and 
2 counties monitor and assess conditions and needs of networks of 

local streets and roads, because that's what we're asking you. 
4 What role should the state actually play in 

monitoring the 710, and Palmdale, and the 710 down my way? How 
6 do you see the state's role in this? 

MR. LAWSON: Well, some of the small problems 

that could end up being large problems is with, I guess, SB 45, 

where the county and city spends its money to do what they want 

10 to do, and then the county next to it doesn't spend its money to 

11 join with the other counties. 

12 I went to a couple of meetings where the Nine 

13 Counties Task Force for the San Joaquin Valley, and you've got 

14 Kings County that doesn't agree with Fresno County, and Fresno 

15 County that doesn't agree with Madera County. 

16 And all these counties with this different money 

17 in STIP, and all your different monies, if they don't work 

18 together, you build a freeway in one county that turns to a goat 

19 road in the next county, and we're not winning the war by doing 

20 this. 

21 We need to have unity in all these counties to 

22 work together. 

23 And I think that the state at the state level has 

24 the best ability to maintain and say where the state roads are 

25 built. 

2 6 SENATOR KARNETTE: Thank you. 

27 CHAIRMAN BURTON: Any witnesses in support? Any 

28 opposition? 



41 



Are you in support or opposition, Mr. Breed? 

MR. BREED: Support. 

Kirk Breed for Beneto Tankline in support of the 



confirmation. 



SENATOR KARNETTE: Move the confirmation. 
CHAIRMAN BURTON: Have you got anybody to 
introduce? Nobody here. 

Call the roll. 

SECRETARY WEBB: Senator Karnette. 

SENATOR KARNETTE: Aye. 



SECRETARY WEBB 
SENATOR KNIGHT 
SECRETARY WEBB 
SENATOR ROMERO 
SECRETARY WEBB 



Karnette Aye. Senator Knight 
Aye. 

Senator Romero. 



Senator Burton 



Knight Ay'e 
Aye. 

Romero Aye 
CHAIRMAN BURTON: Aye. 

SECRETARY WEBB: Burton Aye. Four to zero. 
CHAIRMAN BURTON: Congratulations. 
MR. LAWSON: Thank you, Senators. Thank you, 
Chairman. 

If any more people walk out, this is over. 

[Laughter. ] 
CHAIRMAN BURTON: Kirk Lindsey. 
SENATOR COSTA: Thank you very much, Mr. 
Chairman, Members of the Committee. 

On behalf of Congressman Condit and myself, we'd 
like to also wholeheartedly support Mr. Kirk Lindsey, who is 
another product of the Valley, for the appointment on the 



42 



1 California Transportation Commission. 

2 He, like the previous appointment, has an 
extensive background in the history of California's 

^ transportation efforts from a perspective of his own involvement 
over the years. I think brings a great deal to the table. 

6 And we would very much like to see his 

appointment confirmed by the Rules Committee as well as by the 

8 Senate. 

9 Congressman Condit wanted me to offer his 

10 wholehearted recommendation, and I mine, and we hope to be 

11 available for any comments or questions you might have later on. 

12 I have another appointment, though. 

13 MR. LINDSEY: I'd just like t'o say thank you very 

14 much for considering my confirmation to the CTC. Certainly 

15 we'll represent the people of California as best as I can. 

16 I'm from Modesto, the Central Valley, and live 

17 and die actually in the agricultural trucking business. Many of 

18 the issues that we've heard today are things we deal with every 

19 day. 

20 I make myself available for whatever questions 

21 you might have. 

22 SENATOR KNIGHT: Questions, Senator Romero? 

23 SENATOR ROMERO: Thank you. 

24 I'm interested in the Metropolitan Transportatior 

25 Authority, the MTA in Los Angeles County. What relationship do 

26 you have with MTA? 

27 And in the recent past, MTA has come under a 

28 great deal of criticism regarding its anti-union tactics in 






43 



collective bargaining. 

If you're confirmed for the California 
Transportation Commission, how would you work with the MTA in 
making sure that these types of tactics are not put forward? 

MR. LINDSEY: I don't have an answer. I'm not 
real sure that -- MTA is a local COG agency that creates and 
delivers projects to us for our confirmation, and our approval 
or disapproval. They're the creator, if you will, of what needs 
to be done in that localized area. 

I'm not so sure we would have any dealings 
outside of what those projects might be, of how they interact 
with their own individual community. I think there's a more 
localized community issue than a CTC issue. 

SENATOR KNIGHT: Senator Monteith, did you want 
to say something? 

SENATOR MONTEITH: Yes, if I may, please. 

I wanted to make my statement in support of Kirk 
Lindsey and the Transportation Commission. 

SENATOR KNIGHT: In case you hadn't noticed, I'm 
the Chairman now. 

SENATOR MONTEITH: Fine, thank you. I'll look at 
you, Pete. You're the man. 

We have worked together in numerous situations in 
transportation, and I've found that Mr. Lindsey is able to work 
with people and get things done. And he is always listening. 

He has the experience on a professional basis, 
and I have the utmost confidence that he'll continue and help us 
in our transportation in California. 



44 



1 So, I would like to state at this time that I'm 

2 in full support of his confirmation. 

3 SENATOR KNIGHT: Thank you, Senator. 

4 Senator Karnette. 

SENATOR KARNETTE: I have had SCR 96 last year 

6 that got out of the Legislature. And it's really a report to be 
used as a goods movement blueprint for action, and Caltrans is 

8 supposed to be making that report. 

9 I was wondering, what do you think the trucking 

10 industry could do to kind of relieve California's congestion 

11 problem as it relates to the trucks that come from out of state 

12 and out of country? What do you think the trucking industry 

13 might do to help us out? 

14 MR. LINDSEY: I think there's a lot of 

15 opportunities, but every time we want to go there, we always 

16 run into certainly problems to do that. 

17 I think leveling the playing field between 

18 visitors in California and those that live in California, the 

19 domiciled carriers within the state, would be a huge benefit to 

20 do that from, you know, an equality in the environmental issues, 

21 to who's paying for the roads that they're driving on. 

22 Visitors don't pay. Visitors aren't under the 

23 same rules of the air quality standards that localized companies 

24 are. There's workers' comp. issues. There's liabilities 

issues. There's a whole passle of issues to level that playing j 

I 

26 field. 

27 The trucking industry responds to its customer nc| 

28 different, I guess, than any other industry. So, when the 



45 



customer says, you have to be here at 6:00 o'clock in the 
morning, we don't have a choice. We have to be there at 6:00 
o'clock in the morning. 

My suggestion would be that there would be an 
effort between the industry, the trucking industry itself, and 
its customer base to spread out those delivery times. 

I find it amazing that all of my trucks need to 
be on the highway during peak travel hours. We have to be there 
because the customer says, we want you there at 9:00 o'clock. 
You know, we're right in the middle of 8:00 o'clock traffic. We 
don't care. I mean, I'd much rather be there at 10:00 o'clock 
at night. The last thing on earth that I want my truck is in 
the middle of rush hour traffic. What a huge loss of 
productivity, the risk, the delay, the traffic, all the other 
things that go with it. 

But that's going to take the customer to change 
how they dictate to us on what they want from us. So, I think a 
coordinated effort would be — probably be the biggest issue. 

And if we look at, you know, and that may be a 
pipe dream, but if you go back, I think it was the '84 Olympics, 
when all of a sudden, they started to coordinate when things 
came and went, from government workers, to trucks, to the whole 
thing. All of a sudden, we took a huge monster mess of traffic, 
and we somewhat mitigated it. I don't know if we eliminated it, 
but we may have helped it. 

But again, that takes that coordination, 
everybody sitting down at the table together trying to come up 
with a solution. 



46 



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SENATOR KARNETTE: I hope we can do it, because I 
think we're going to have to or we're going to freeze. The 
freeways are just going to freeze. 

MR. LINDSEY: We've got big parking lots. 

SENATOR KARNETTE: Thank you. 

SENATOR KNIGHT: Why is it that we can't get 
together and do that again as we did in the '84 Olympics? I'm 
well aware of what they did, and the cooperation that everybody 
put forth in order to make that event successful. 

MR. LINDSEY: You know, I don't know. I don't 
know if it's a leadership issue, and just nobody really has 
stepped up to take the lead role in bringing all of the players 
together. 

SENATOR KNIGHT: Do we have to bring Ueberroth 



back? 



MR. LINDSEY: Might work. He was successful. 
But I would just guess it's more of a leadership 



issue 



We also run into the realm, as we move from that 
time, day and time, to this just-in-time delivery process, I've 
got to have it at 9:00 o'clock in the morning so I can sell it 
at 10:00 o'clock in the morning. 

Maybe we're too efficient. We've created that — 
we've narrowed those windows so tight that we're putting — 
you know, we're breaking the back of the system. Instead of 
8:00, let's get there at 4:00 clock in the morning and sell it 
at 10:00 o'clock in the morning, and we're not competing for 
road space. 






47 



SENATOR KNIGHT: You heard the discussion about 
138, 58, and 395? 

MR. LINDSEY: Could I add a list of maybe 35 or 
40 other roads that are in the same boat, sir? 

SENATOR KNIGHT: I think that's something that 
California has missed over the years, and it's fallen behind in, 
through the crack, for a number of years, and caused undue 
hardships on people and industries. 

MR. LINDSEY: I would hope that the pendulum is 
swinging back the other direction. Instead of being on one far 
side that says, we're going to build roads for the sake of 
building roads, kind of like moving ants with no thought process 
whatsoever, that the pendulum would sort of swing to the other 
side, that we look at growth patterns and future growth, and we 
deal with land use issues. You know, we deal with actually 
moving goods and services and people to and from economic 
centers, not just from here to nowhere. 

And if we do that, I think your issues in your 
local community get addressed way up the list, because certainly 
those are economic centers, and we are moving goods and services 
and people to jobs, and home from jobs, and to retail outlets 
and such, and we're not just building a road that's going to go 
from nowhere to nowhere. We've got an awful lot of those 
floating around also. 

SENATOR KNIGHT: There was a question I wanted to 
ask Mr. Lawson, but he indicated that Arizona can move their 
STIP project within three years. It takes us seven and eight? 

MR. LINDSEY: We've certainly heard that, yes. 



48 



1 SENATOR KNIGHT: Is there any way that we could 

2 look into that and move our STIP projects forward? 

MR. LINDSEY: Again, I think it's a coordination 

4 issue. 

Arizona does not have, from what we've been told 

6 quite the same number of environmental mitigating issues before 
them. But I also -- 

8 SENATOR KARNETTE: Who wants to live in Arizona? 

9 Not me . 

10 MR. LINDSEY: In the same token, sir, I think 

11 that what they've done is, they've got a method where they bring 

12 all of the players to the table early. If you look at — and 

13 I'll talk about my local community from a developer viewpoint. 

14 It used to be you went down to City Hall, and you 

15 had to go to the Public Works Department, and the Traffic 

16 Department, and this department, that department. And you spent 

17 three weeks running around your local City Hall, trying to get 

18 the forms to build a project. 

19 That has changed now, where you go in and it ' s a 

20 one-stop shop. You walk in. Everybody's at the table. 

21 Everybody's dialed in. If it's a game breaker, it's a game 

22 breaker; we don't have a project. If not, everybody's working 

23 from Day One, and we're not taking that two, three, four week 

24 delay. 

25 I think we have to do the same thing as we deal 

26 with building of our infrastructure, bringing all of the people 

27 to the table, getting them on board immediately. If it's a game 

28 breaker, somebody needs to say, you know what? This thing is 3C 



49 



years out because it's got so many problems, we're never going 
to go there, and we can't afford to tie money up on a project 30 
years from now when there's 10 other projects that need to be 
built today. 

So, somebody's got to be able to say no somewhere 
quickly in the process. But we've got to start early, and we've 
got to build a united front. And there's a big effort to do 
that . 

SENATOR KNIGHT: You know, it's amazing how long 
our government's been going on, and we keep coming up with these 
new ideas that have been around for hundreds of years. I don't 
know why it takes us so long to get with it, but it does. Okay. 

Thank you. 

Did you move the confirmation? 

SENATOR KARNETTE: I'll move it, since he 
supported women's polo. 

MR. LINDSEY: I actually coach it. 

SENATOR KARNETTE: You're a coach for women's 
water polo. 

MR. LINDSEY: And swimming. 

SENATOR KNIGHT: Any support for the nomination? 

MR. ASSAGAI: Yes, Mr. Chairman and Members, I'm 
Mel Assagai, of the Advocacy Group and California Trucking 
Association. 

We are very, very proud to support this 
nomination. We think that Mr. Lindsey will be one of the finest 
members we've had on the Commission. He is a former President 
and Chairman of the Board of the California Trucking 



50 



1 
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■; 

5 
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Association, has been a member for 30 years, and has held 
practically every post in the Association. 

We think that he's got the kind of judgment and 
breadth of understanding to make a very solid contribution to 
the state, and would urge your aye vote. 

SENATOR KNIGHT: Thank you. 

Any other? Any opposition to the nomination? 

Okay, Secretary, call the roll. 

SECRETARY WEBB: Senator Karnette. 

SENATOR KARNETTE: Aye, for the coach for water 



polo. 



SECRETARY WEBB 
SENATOR KNIGHT 
SECRETARY WEBB 
SENATOR ROMERO 
SECRETARY WEBB 
SENATOR KNIGHT 



Karnette Aye. Senator Knight. 
Aye. 

Knight Aye. Senator Romero. 
Aye. 

Romero Aye. 
Congratulations . 
MR. LINDSEY: Thank you much. 

[Thereafter, CHAIRMAN BURTON 
added his Aye vote, making 
the final vote 4-0 for 
confirmation. ] 
SENATOR KNIGHT: Next is Diane McKenna, Member 
of the California Transportation Commission. 

Come in and take the hot seat. 

SENATOR SHER: Mr. Chairman, may I make a brief 
introductory statement for my good friend, Diane McKenna? 

SENATOR KNIGHT: Certainly, Senator Sher. You're 



51 



on. 

SENATOR SHER: Thank you very much, Members of 
the Rules Committee. 

It's my great pleasure to introduce to you my 
good friend of many years standing, Diane McKenna. I've known 
Diane since her first foray into political office in the City of 
Sunnyvale, where she was an outstanding citizen of the 
community, member of the City Council, and Mayor of Sunnyvale. 

Following that, she ran and was elected to the 
Santa Clara County Board of Supervisors, where she enjoined the 
reputation of being a friend to everyone and an enemy of none. 

She's very balanced in her approach to problems, 
very effective. In all those years in public service, and even 
more importantly, central to the planning for transportation in 
the whole Bay Area. She was central to the formation of our 
transit authority, the Valley Transit Authority. She worked on 
what was then very innovative local government taxing, and local 
citizens taxing themselves, to provide for transportation 
projects that otherwise would have been the responsibility of 
the state. 

She's very familiar not only with the 
transportation problems in our immediate area, but the whole Bay 
Area, and she'd made an outstanding addition to the California 
Transportation Commission. I recommend her to you with my 
highest recommendation. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Go ahead. 

MS. McKENNA: Thank you, Members of the 
Committee . 



52 



1 I just wanted to say that I had the pleasure, and 

2 I appreciate the time that you or your staff gave me to meet 

3 with me. 

4 I am from the South Bay, Silicon Valley, better 
known to some of you. I have worked on transportation for a 

6 number of years, and I would just like the opportunity to take 
some of that experience to the state level and work on behalf o 

8 the citizens of California. 

9 I think I'll let my brief goals stand for 
themselves and be glad to answer any questions that you might 

11 have. 

12 CHAIRMAN BURTON: Senator Knight. 

13 SENATOR KNIGHT: Same old questions, you know, 

14 come down and look at 138, 395, and 58. See what you think. 

15 MS. McKENNA: I will, Senator. 

16 SENATOR KNIGHT: We talked about that before. 

17 CHAIRMAN BURTON: What's your thought on the Bay 

18 Bridge? 

19 MS. McKENNA: You know, I haven't gotten — every 

20 one of us is telling you it's tomorrow, but actually I'm getting 

21 a briefing on Wednesday on the Bay Bridge. 

22 CHAIRMAN BURTON: What are your thoughts? I 
mean, it's something those of us in the Bay Area pay more 

24 attention to than others. 

25 MS. McKENNA: Yes. It's something that looks as 

26 though we're going to have use — not get rid of the tolls to 

27 help pay for it. I don't know what other options, really. 

28 CHAIRMAN BURTON: Lay some of the responsibility 



53 



or most of it on MTC? 

MS. McKENNA: Well — 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: It's within their jurisdiction. 

MS. McKENNA: Right, right. 

I think I would like to take a look. I mean, I 
have some understanding of what the delays were, but I think we 
should also look at what the causes of the delay were and see if 
there's some way we could -- 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Have both Mayor Brown and Mayor 
Brown come up with something? 

I would guess that Caltrans itself ought to be 
looking at ways, if there are any frills on it, on the 
retrofitting or whatever, to kind of — 

MS. McKENNA: — to reduce the cost. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Yes, I would think, because 
it's going to be tough. I think even getting the toll 
authorization extended may or may not be tough. You have 
people, and some would say it's your district, let the people 
vote for it. Others would say, I've got a constituent that 
crosses it every three years, and he shouldn't have to pay 
the extra buck. 

If we don't do something about it, I don't know 
what's going to happen. 

MS. McKENNA: Well, you know, I consider it a 
major -- like any other major highway, it doesn't matter whether 
you're in Southern California or Northern California, it's part 
of the overall system. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: It ' s a link. 



54 



1 MS. McKENNA: Yeah, it's the overall system. 

2 But I think it points to the questions that 
others have been asking, as well as yourself, and that is, every 

4 time you delay a project, the price goes up. 

I was thinking as you asked the question before, 
6 the earthquake was October 17th, 1989. That's more than a 
decade. 

8 CHAIRMAN BURTON: I think it was delayed at least 

9 a couple of years. It wasn't pretty enough for Jerry, and then 

10 Willie wanted an off ramp for it on the TI, yeah, Treasure 

11 Island. 

12 Hopefully, I'll be out of here before it falls 

13 down. I was here during the last rebuilding' in '66 or 

14 something. They had a hump there that they had to fix. 

15 MS. McKENNA: I just came across the Bay Bridge. 

16 I have my faith that we're going to get it rebuilt. 

17 CHAIRMAN BURTON: Senator Romero, the 710 

18 Freeway. 

19 SENATOR ROMERO: Thank you. 

20 No, actually, I'm going to bypass on that one. 

21 You talked about your short-term goals and 
long-term goals. Under both of these, you talked about 

23 expediting the projects. 

24 You indicate in your short-term goals that you're 
interested in some subtle charges. Can you describe those, some 
of the short-term and long-term goals to expedite the projects? 

27 MS. McKENNA: Well, I think the thing that came 

28 into mind most recently is the fact that the Sunol Grade, which 



55 



is in both Alameda and comes into Santa Clara County, was not a 
project that anybody was looking to as high priority. And yet, 
it became bumper-to-bumper types of traffic with no movement. 

And it took the three counties getting together 
to fund that project that otherwise wouldn't have gotten 
together on projects before. And that project moved forward. 

So, I think there's a lot of things that we 
haven't been looking at, maybe across the state, where we can 
get people sharing in the cost, and moving at least the 
bottlenecks or the congestions, ahead of what they originally 
planned for. So, I think those are kind of small-term projects. 

I think long-term projects are — it's going to 
be a little more difficult, because my goal would be to see the 
State of California be able to move goods or people, either 
roads or transit, throughout. And that's going to take much 
longer and greater cooperation. 

But I think that there isn't -- the one thing you 
learn about transportation is that there isn't a magic bullet. 
It takes a lot of work, and it takes a lot of different avenues 
to get people and goods moved. So, you have to build roads, you 
have to build transit, you have to do all the kinds of things 
that help you move a little built closer. 

So, that's what I meant by both long-term and 
short-term goals. 

SENATOR ROMERO: Thank you. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Senator Karnette. 

SENATOR KARNETTE: I have two concerns. 
Actually, both of them relate to money. 



56 



1 The state, how do you see us addressing the 

2 problem of the sales tax that's going to expire in certain 
counties, and the fact that some groups, some counties, do pass 

4 taxes, and they're paying and other counties may not be. 

What do you see as some way to approach that? 

6 Then I have a second question after that. 

MS. McKENNA: Well, I come from a county where 

8 we've passed it four times now. 

9 SENATOR KARNETTE: And I admire you for that. 

10 MS. McKENNA: In Alameda County, I don't know if 

11 it's twice or three times. Twice in Alameda County. 

12 I think that what made it work, at least in those 

13 respective counties, and if it's coming up in other counties, I 

14 would support it, what made it work was that it was an effort of 

15 business, the citizenry, the environmental groups, every group 

16 you could possibly think of supported it because the problem was 

17 so severe. 

18 And it tends to happen when there's a crisis; 

19 people tend to rally around it. That's basically what happened 

20 in Santa Clara County. And to my knowledge of Alameda County, 

21 that's true. 

22 So, it seems to me if there's any other county 

23 that wants to pass it, the only way it's going to happen is if 

24 you're able to get all of the groups behind it, because it 

25 currently still needs a two-thirds vote. And that's the dilemma 

26 that you face. 

27 SENATOR KARNETTE: I wish it didn't need a 

28 two-thirds. I wish a majority would do it. 



57 



MS. McKENNA: I agree with you. 

SENATOR KARNETTE: The other question I have is, 
it seems to me, and I don't know if you agree, but do you really 
feel like California receives its fair share of federal 
transportation funding? We just got cut some more. 

How can we be more effective in competing with 
these other states? It didn't work too well under Clinton, 
either. We've got to get somebody who understand our needs and 
the fact that California's supporting the rest of the nation, 
and they don't get the message. 

MS. McKENNA: Well, there's no question that 
California's a donor state, and we don't get our fair share. 

I mean, I think the thing that we need to do, 
obviously, the one thing that we have now that we hadn't had 
before is a Secretary of Transportation who understands the 
issue. So, I think that maybe we should be lobbying not only 
our Congressional delegation, but the Secretary as well, to 
bring to the forefront those states that tend to be donor 
states, as opposed to those states who are receivers. 

SENATOR KARNETTE: Maybe Senator Knight could 
help us; right? 

SENATOR KNIGHT: Yes, ma'am. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Do you have any family to 
introduce? 

MS. McKENNA: No, I don't. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Any witnesses in support? 

MR. KEMPTON: Mr. Chairman and Members, Will 
Kempton, representing the Santa Clara Valley Transportation 



58 

1 Authority. 

2 We're in strong support of the nomination. 

3 CHAIRMAN BURTON: Witnesses in opposition? 

4 Hearing none, move the nomination. 

5 Call the roll. 

6 CHAIRMAN BURTON: How long did you live in 
Sunnyvale? 

8 MS. McKENNA: I have lived there since 1968. 

9 CHAIRMAN BURTON: Any cherry orchards there wher 

10 you first moved in? 

11 MS. McKENNA: All over the place. 

12 CHAIRMAN BURTON: We used to go down and pick 

13 them. 

14 Pete, you'd be happy to know this. It was three 

15 cents a pound, pick them yourself off the tree. 

16 SENATOR KNIGHT: Yeah, I used to fly into Moffit 

17 in the '50s and '60s, and I remember what it looked like around 

i 

18 there. 

19 CHAIRMAN BURTON: We could have bought property I 

20 and been somebody. 

21 SENATOR KNIGHT: Could have bought the whole 

22 place. 

23 MS. McKENNA: Olsen's cherry orchard was just -- 

24 is just being developed. 

2 5 CHAIRMAN BURTON: Oh, no. 

2 6 MS. McKENNA: Yes. 

27 CHAIRMAN BURTON: I talked to her on the phone. 

28 She swore she'd never -- 



59 



MS. McKENNA: It's just being developed now as we 
speak. It's a shame. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Yeah. 

MS. McKENNA: It's a shame that in a community — 
that we have next to our community center what we're calling a 
heritage orchard, so we have about -- 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: A few trees. 

MS. McKENNA: — three acres of trees. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: They used to ship stuff. You 
could buy the Bings from her. 

And I talked to her last year and told her how we 
used to go down there during "the war", Pete. And she said — 
oh, God. 

MS. McKENNA: Yes, it's depressing. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Very depressing. 

MS. McKENNA: My kids played in the orchard, so I 
know what it's like. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: This is worse than the energy 



crisis 



Palmdale . 



SENATOR KNIGHT: We used to have almonds in 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Call the roll. 

SECRETARY WEBB: Senator Karnette. 

SENATOR KARNETTE: Aye. 

SECRETARY WEBB: Karnette Aye. Senator Knight. 

SENATOR KNIGHT: Aye. 

SECRETARY WEBB: Knight Aye. Senator Romero. 

SENATOR ROMERO: Aye. 



60 



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SECRETARY WEBB: Romero Aye. Senator Burton 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Aye. 

SECRETARY WEBB: Burton Aye. Four to zero. 

CHAIRMAN BURTON: Congratulations. 

MS. McKENNA: Thank you so much. 

[Thereupon this portion of the 

Senate Rules Committee hearing 

was terminated at approximately. 

3:02 P.M. ] 

— ooOoo- — 



61 



CERTIFICATE OF SHORTHAND REPORTER 



I, EVELYN J. MIZAK, a Shorthand Reporter of the State 
of California, do hereby certify: 

That I am a disinterested person herein; that the 
foregoing transcript of the Senate Rules Committee hearing was 
reported verbatim in shorthand by. me, Evelyn J. Mizak, and 
thereafter transcribed into typewriting. 

I further certify that I am not of counsel or 
attorney for any of the parties to said hearing, nor in any way 
interested in the outcome of said hearing. 

IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set my hand this 



/^ day of )<k/? 



/ 



, 2001 







i 7 — l 



T 



EVELYN J. MIZAK 
Shorthand Reporter 



427-R 
Additional copies of this publication may be purchased for $3.25 per copy 
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^.HEARING 

SENATE^RULES COMMITTEE 

STATE OF CALIFORNIA 




DOCUMENTS DEPT. 

JUL 1 8 2001 

SAN FRANCISCO 
p UBLI€ LIBRARY 



STATE CAPITOL 

ROOM 3191 

SACRAMENTO, CALIFORNIA 

MONDAY, MAY 21, 2001 
1:45 P.M. 



428- R 



SENATE RULES COMMITTEE 
STATE OF CALIFORNIA 



HEARING 



STATE CAPITOL 

ROOM 3191 

SACRAMENTO, CALIFORNIA 



MONDAY, MAY 21, 2 01 
1 :45 P.M. 



REPORTED BY 



JAMES F. PETERS, CSR, RPR 
CERTIFIED SHORTHAND REPORTER 
LICENSE NUMBER 10063 



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APPEARANCES 
MEMBERS PRESENT 

SENATOR JOHN BURTON, Chair 
SENATOR ROSS JOHNSON, Vice Chair 
SENATOR BETTY KARNETTE 
SENATOR WILLIAM KNIGHT 
SENATOR GLORIA ROMERO 

STAFF PRESENT 

GREG SCHMIDT, Executive Officer 

PAT WEBB, Committee Secretary 

NETTIE SABELHAUS, Consultant on Governor's Appointments 

SUSIE SWATT, Consultant to Senator Johnson 

TIM SHELLEY, Consultant to Senator Karnette 

CHRIS BURNS, Consultant to Senator Knight 

RYAN SHERMAN, Consultant to Senator Romero 

ALSO PRESENT 



BETH CAPELL 
SEIU 

SENATOR JIM COSTA 

JOHN HARRIS, MEMBER 
California Horse Racing Board 

SENATOR SHEILA KUEHL 

ALAN W. LANDSBURG, MEMBER 
California Horse Racing Board 



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APPEARANCES CONTINUED 



ALSO PRESENT CONTINUED 



MARJORIE SWARTZ 

Western Center on Law and Poverty 



DANIEL ZINGALE, DIRECTOR 
Department of Managed Health Care 



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INDEX 



PAGE 



Proceedings 

Governor's Appointees: 

JOHN C. HARRIS, MEMBER 
California Horse Racing Board 

Statement of Support by Senator Costa 

Statement by Mr. Harris 

Questions by CHAIRPERSON BURTON re: 

Position on Account Wagering 

If the Industry has any Programs to Deal 
with Gambling Problems 

What is the Status of the Back-Stretch 
Employees 

Question by SENATOR KNIGHT re: 

Are There Impediments to Horse Breeding 
in California 

Motion to Confirm 

Committee Action 

ALAN W. LANDSBURG, MEMBERS 
California Horse Racing Board 

Opening Statement 

Questions by CHAIRPERSON BURTON re: 
Position on Account Wagering 
Do You Have Approval of Track Closures 
What's the Status of Tracks Closing 
The Future of Horse Racing 



1 
1 
1 



5 

7 
8 

8 
8 

9 
9 

10 
13 



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Questions by SENATOR KNIGHT re: 

When Will the Medical Problems 

Associated with Horse Racing Will be 

Solved 15 

Questions by SENATOR ROMERO re: 

What Are Your Views in Terms of How the 

Media Depicts Horse Racing 17 

Are There Any Charitable Foundations 

or Educational Foundations 17 

Questions by SENATOR KARNETTE re: 

Do You See a Future in Getting the 

Horses Closer to the People 19 

Questions by CHAIRPERSON BURTON re: 

Is the Movie About Sea Biscuit Better 

than the Old One 2 

Motion to Confirm 22 

Committee Action 22 

DANIEL ZINGALE, DIRECTOR 
Department of Managed Health Care 

Statement of Support by Senator Kuehl 23 

Opening Statement 23 

Questions by CHAIRPERSON BURTON re: 

Does it Make Sense to Have HMOs and Some 

PPOs Regulated by the Department of Managed 

Care While Having the Department of 

Insurance Regulate Some PPOs 25 

When they Call in to the Hotline is it 
Computer of Person 28 

When There was a Breakdown Between Sutter 

and Blue Cross, Did You Learn Anything 29 



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Questions by SENATOR JOHNSON re: 

What Do You Think is the Role in Making this 

Whole Process More User Friendly for 

Regulated Entities 30 

Questions by SENATOR ROMERO re: 

What Are Your Thoughts on Sexually 
Transmitted Diseases and How to Get Out 
Information 32 

Questions by SENATOR KNIGHT re: 

Anything in Mind to Help People Where HMOs 
Left the County 36 

Are HMOs obligated to Provide the Best 
Possible Health Care in Terms of Technology 37 

Questions by SENATOR ROMERO re: 

Is Prevention Medically Necessary 39 

Questions by CHAIRPERSON BURTON re: 

Is There a Distinction Between Necessary and 
Desirable 39 

Is There Something That Can be Done to Help 
Places With no HMOs 40 

Witnesses in Support: 

BETH CAPELL 

SEIU, Health Access California 42 

MARJORIE SWARTZ, 

Center on Law and Poverty 43 

Motion to Confirm 44 

Committee Action 44 

Adjournment 4 5 

Reporter's Certificate 46 



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PROCEEDINGS 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Governor's appointees. 
First, John Harris, Member, California Horse Racing Board. 

SENATOR COSTA: Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman 
and Members of the committee. I'm here to voice my 
support for actually both nominees to the California Horse 
Racing Board. 

The first gentlemen, Mr. John Harris and I have 
known each other professionally and personally for over 22 
years and I highly recommend him for this position. He 
comes with an array of outstanding qualifications in terms 
of his experience and background. He and his family have 
been involved in California horse racing for decades. 

It's an issue of pride and as well as passion 
with John. He, besides his obvious experience and talent 
for this appointment, also has been a very important 
member of our community from a whole host of contributions 
to assisting on the hospital board and a host of other 
philanthropic efforts that he has been a part of, as well 
as to the State of California and I highly recommend him 
for this position. 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Mr. Harris. 

MR. HARRIS: I'm John Harris. I've been involved 
with horses virtually the last 40 years or so. I've 



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served on some different horse organization boards. I was 
sort of surprised to be appointed to this board. It's 
something that I feel like I can do a good job on, and 
feel the Governor has done a good job in his appointments 
in getting people that are more involved in racing on the 
board. And we hope to move racing forward. 

As you know, racing has got several challenges 
right now, but it's a sport that goes way back and we feel 
that it's important for California to have a viable 
industry and hope that I can move it forward. 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: How many members are on the 
Board now? 

MR. HARRIS: There are seven. It's the full 
board now. 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: You finally got a full 
board? 

MR. HARRIS: That's right. 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: How long did that take? 

MR. HARRIS: Well, it took awhile, but basically 
they always had a quorum, but it got down to four and now 
it's now back up to a full board. 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Do you have a position on 
account wagering? 

MR. HARRIS: Well, I'm supportive of account 
wagering. I think with the day's world that it's moving 

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 



that direction with the traffic and the inability of 
people to move around, especially in southern and northern 
California that account wagering would allow people to 
wager on horses that can't physically get to the track. 
And the combination of television will hopefully bring 
more fans in. 

I know there's been some opposition to it, but I 
think that, you know, some of the opposition can be 
overcome hopefully and something that other states -- 
there's about ten other states that have it and it's 
proven that it's working. So I'm hopeful that, you know, 
sometime we'll get it in California. 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Do you know if the industry 
has any programs to try to deal with those with quote 
"gambling problems"? Do they do much? 

MR. HARRIS: Yeah, I think that really racing 
doesn't really produce as many, you know, people that have 
gambling problems than some of the other types of 
gambling, but racing does support, there's sort of like a 
gamblers anonymous group that some funds from racing is 
going into. 

I think actually in the account wagering bill 
there's some monies that go to that. So I think racing is 
very cognizant of that as being a problem of, you know, 
anytime there's wagering that we need to take that into 



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consideration. 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: And just lastly, what's the 
status of, you know, the back-stretch employees? 

MR. HARRIS: As far as which aspect of it? 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: I don't know, as far as, 
shall we say, the quality of life or not. 

MR. HARRIS: Well, I think that's one thing that 
this board wants to, you know, take a good look at and try 
to make the back-stretch housing as good as at all 
possible and ensure that it complies with any local, you 
know, housing ordinances and oversight. 

And, perhaps, in the past, I think sometimes it 
hasn't been focused on that much. But right now I think 
people live on the back stretches have, sort of, a 
different type of existence. It's not really a family 
type of environment, but the -- from what I've seen, 
especially since there's been some improvements made, that 
the facilities are adequate. I think the key is to keep 
the enforcement going and make sure that it doesn't start 
to slip. 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Do you think the industry 
would be well served if they banned George Andres from 
going to the track? 
(Laugher . ) 

MR. HARRIS: No, that would be terrible. 






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(Laughter . ) 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Senator Johnson. 

SENATOR JOHNSON: No questions. 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Senator Karnette? 

SENATOR KARNETTE: No questions. 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Senator Romero? 

SENATOR ROMERO: Thank you. I was going to ask 
the question on back stretch workers, but I appreciate 
that Pro Tern has already addressed that. 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Senator Knight. 

SENATOR KNIGHT: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

(Laughter . ) 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Would do you think about 
that highway that goes up? 

(Laughter . ) 

SENATOR KNIGHT: All three of them. No. I get 
another question. Are there any impediments provided by 
the State to horse breeding in California? And if not, 
what can we do to encourage horses breeders to come to 
California? We've got the perfect climate, the geography 
Why don't we have more? 

MR HARRIS: We're third right now, behind 
Kentucky and Florida. And we have really improved the 
quality. The total numbers are about the same over the 
last few years, but we stand some of the better stallions 



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in the country, Seize Tizzy, that actually stands on our 
farm, was number one in the country for awhile. 

So its improving. I think a lot of it is going 
to go with the racing as a whole, if we can make that 
stronger out here and see more. I mean Kentucky is tough 
to compete with because there is so much money back there 
and that's sort of a nucleus for, you know, all of the 
midwest and east to have horses there. But we're holding 
our own . 

I mean some of the things like the sales tax on 
breeding stock is a little bit of a problem. In Kentucky 
you don't have to pay say sales tax on breeding stock. 
But I think California can, you know, gradually improve. 

SENATOR COSTA: Senator Knight, you're exactly 
right. I learned recently that Kentucky has over a two 
billion dollar a year breeding industry there. And I know 
that John Harris has been one of the key proponents on the 
whole Cal bred program, in terms of building it up and 
expanding it and putting us this third in the nation. 

SENATOR KNIGHT: It ' s a good healthy industry and 
there's no reason why we shouldn't be number one in the 
country . 

MR. HARRIS: I mean, you don't like to benefit 
from someone else's problems, but Kentucky has had this 
problem with their grass back there, that there's some 



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kind of a toxin that develops in the horses that's -- 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: It's all the blue paint, 
isn't it? 

(Laughter . ) 

MR. HARRIS: And they've lost a lot of foes this 
year and actually some of the mares are shipping to 
California and fortunately we don't have it in California, 
so that -- 

SENATOR KNIGHT: We need to keep it out, too. 

MR. HARRIS: Yeah, definitely. 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: John, did you bring any 
family? 

MR. HARRIS: No. I just Here with Costa. 

(Laughter . ) 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Witnesses in support? 

I know that Linda Muer was here earlier. She 
stepped out. 

Any witnesses in opposition? 

Hearing none, I'll move the nomination. 

COMMITTEE SECRETARY WEB: Senator Karnette? 

SENATOR KARNETTE: Aye. 

COMMITTEE SECRETARY WEB: Karnette aye. 

Senator Knight? 

SENATOR KNIGHT: Aye. 

COMMITTEE SECRETARY WEB: Knight aye. 



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8 



Senator Romero? 

SENATOR ROMERO: Aye. 

COMMITTEE SECRETARY WEB: Romero aye. 

Senator Johnson? 

SENATOR JOHNSON: Aye. 

COMMITTEE SECRETARY WEB: Johnson aye. 

Senator Burton? 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Aye. 

COMMITTEE SECRETARY WEB: Burton aye. 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Congratulations, John. 

MR. HARRIS: Thank you. 

(Applause . ) 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: If you can't keep Andres out 
of the track, let him pick a couple winners, will you. 

MR. LANDSBURG: He'll have to consult with me on 
that . 

I'm Alan Landsburg . I've spent a great deal of 
my career in television and motion pictures, 40 years of 
it. But the last 25 I've split my time between being 
involved in the owner, breeding and, in fact, oversight in 
racing as a member of the Thoroughbred Owners of 
California . 

I believe that the industry has ways in which it 
can be improved, in particular its outreach to people who 
should be brought in to see the spectacle and understand 

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r 


why it's 


an important sport. And it's an important sport 


for more 


than one reason. 




It supports a great deal of agriculture in this 


state, some two to three billion dollars worth. And it's 


our job, 


I think, on the Board to help nurture what can be 


changed in the future of racing and make it somewhat 


better . 


I hope that my time on the Board can be spent 


doing that . 




CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Your position on account 


wagering? 


» 




MR. LANDSBURG: I think account wagering is, in 


the end, 


necessary, because it's too difficult to get to 


the race 


track for most people. And as we introduce 


people to racing, personally, account wagering will 


provide a means for them to continue to support and get 


more involved. 




It's got to be highly controlled and I think it's 


got to be specifically taken away from the power of people 


under 21 


to be involved in it, but other than that, we are 


in an age of electronic communication. And electronic 


communication will make possible the kind of account 


wagering 


that can be sensibly monitored instead of the way 


it goes now, which is 800 telephone numbers reaching out 


to Saint 


Thomas and Nassau, and the money draining away 


from the 


economy, both of our racing and the State. 



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10 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: What, in fact, I probably 
should have asked this to John too, but the Board has to 
approve track closures. 

MR. LANDSBURG: Track closures? 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Yes. 

MR. LANDSBURG: Not to my knowledge. 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: But would you approve the 
transfer of the dates? 

MR. LANDSBURG: Yes, we do have to approve 
transfer of dates. 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Somebody could close a 
track, but they have to come to you to basically keep the 
days of racing. I always wondered how that worked. San 
Fran did that . What was wonderful they developed the 
property and kept the money from the horse racing. It 
seemed like a good deal. 

MR. LANDSBURG: Well, at this point in time, with 
racing hanging on by threads in some cases, the closing of 
a track may not help racing. We don't believe and I don't 
believe, personally, that closing a track does anything 
good for racing, because it takes away the training 
facility and a place to keep horses who are not ready to 
go on to the actual sport race track, but are being -- are 
recovering from injuries or just learning how to race. 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: What's the status of the 

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i: 

ones that look like -- there's always talk of Bay Meadows 
closing, right? 

MR. LANDSBURG: There has been, but I don't think 
at the moment -- Bay Meadows has been sold as a unit. Its 
land is gone. It's got to be replaced by another track 
someplace else because eventually the lease will give up 
and the track will go away, except that it's -- 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: And they'll send the days up 
to Gold Gate, right? 

MR. LANDSBURG: The days should go to Golden 
Gate. They don't have to be applied for and approved. 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: So there would be only one 
track north -- 

MR. LANDSBURG: Right. 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: And then what's happening 
down south, Hollywood Park? 

MR. LANDSBURG: Well, Hollywood Park is now owned 
by Churchill Downs, which is a large enough and strong 
enough entity in racing to support it. 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: The same people don't they 
own Santa Anita, too? 

MR. LANDSBURG: They own Santa Anita as well. 
And they also own Gulf Stream Park and three other race 
tracks . 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Yeah, but Gulf Stream Park 



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12 

is not here. 

MR. LANDSBURG: No. 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: But I mean the question 
would be if they owned Santa Anita -- 

MR. LANDSBURG: I'm sorry, not the same unit. 
Santa Anita and Bay Meadows is owned by the same company. 
Churchill Downs owns Hollywood Park. Magna Entertainment 
owns - - 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Okay, yeah, all right. 

MR. LANDSBURG: There's two different entities. 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: So there's, I mean, in 
theory, ownership competition, ownership something between 
those two? 

MR. LANDSBURG: Yes, there is between those two. 
And, of course, Del March enters into the mix because it's 
further south. 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Yeah, and who owns Del Mar 
now? 

MR. LANDSBURG: Del Mar is a nonprofit 
organization that's run -- 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: I remember that one well. 

And there's no talk - - or I mean there's been 
talk but what are the prospects of either Santa Anita or 
Hollywood shutting down. 

MR. LANDSBURG: Not in the immediate future. 

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12 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Not in the immediate future? 

MR. LANDSBURG: Not in the immediate future. I 
think that the only talk that I know of, and it's just at 
the moment, is the possibility of building a race track at 
Davis, and that's Magna ' s proposal. At least it's in the 
air. It's not really landed anywhere. 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Be awfully hot racing up in 
Davis, today anyway. 

(Laughter . ) ' 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: I have a theory that by the 
year 2012 there will be one race track in the country 
running 24 hours a day in Omaha and everything is going to 
be simulcasted. 

MR. LANDSBURG: I hope not. 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: I mean, I wouldn't bet my 
life, the way it's going. 

MR. LANDSBURG: I made the prediction ten years 
ago, that our tracks will finally be reduced, if they keep 
going the way they're going, to television studios, an 
area that I'm familiar with. 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: That's kind of what -- 

MR. LANDSBURG: Then you'd here sound effects of 
horses and screaming of crowds. 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Well, if you're directing 
and writing in them, what the hell. 



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14 



(Laughter . ) 

SENATOR JOHNSON: Don't need the horses. 

(Laughter . ) 

SENATOR JOHNSON: It's all digital. 

MR. LANDSBURG: That's not an end to be desired, 
however. There is something beautiful about the sport. 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Sport of Kings. 

SENATOR KARNETTE: And Queens. 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Did you pick the winner of 
the Preakness? 

MR. LANDSBURG: Yes, but not the second horse, 
darn it . 

(Laughter . ) 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Congratulations on not 
having a writer's strike by the way. 

MR. LANDSBURG: Yes, hopeful. 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Hopefully that will mean 
well for the SAG negotiations. 

MR. LANDSBURG: I think they're a lock. 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Do you? 



MR. LANDSBURG: Yes, 


I don't think there's any 


possible change. 




CHAIRPERSON BURTON: 


You've never seen chalk run 


out of the money. 




MR. LANDSBURG: That 


chalk is not going to run 



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15 



out of the money. 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Good. Senator Johnson. 

SENATOR JOHNSON: No questions. 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Senator Knight? 

SENATOR KNIGHT: Excuse me. Alan, we talked 
before about the medical problems associated with horses 
and the ability with today's technology to be able to 
detect minute amounts of caffeine or whatever in a horse, 
which everybody knows does not affect the performance at 
all. And I understand you're working on that, but is 
there any -- do you have a time period that we might have 
some resolution to that issue? 

MR. LANDSBURG: I don't know about resolution, 
but at least an informed board with an ability to make a 
decision is part of a process we're now undergoing, with a 
committee set up to discuss and find solutions to the 
problems that we now face in medication and security, 
which are the two things that seem to overlap. 

Those committees are due to report by the end of 
August and report to the Board with specific and sincere 
recommendations for what the Board can do to enforce a 
policy that is somewhat different if that turns out to be 
the recommendations of an industrywide group that is now 
currently in session working on proposals. 

SENATOR KNIGHT: My understanding is, and in 



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talking to Ray Wood, that there would have to be some 
legislative action in order to change the ability of the 
Board to make a reasonable decision? 

MR. LANDSBURG: Some or most of the rules are 
legislative. However, the Board does have a certain 
amount of discretion in the way these cases come down to 
the Board. And we are in the process now, and I head a 
committee that is taking both adjudication, security and 
medication into the effects so that we can combine and 
create a policy on which the rest of and which rules can 
be promulgated. 

SENATOR KNIGHT: If there is legislation 
required, would you certainly get to us as quick as 
possible? 

MR. LANDSBURG: I think that we will get to you 
if you need that information, because that's our role. 
However, it is going to be the role of others to bring 
forth that legislation, because you need a group of 
medical experts to do so. 

SENATOR KNIGHT: I understand. 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Senator Romero. 

SENATOR ROMERO: Thank you. Two questions, if I 
may . 

One of them is just impression, given your back 
ground, as you see movies, television specials that 

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perhaps depict horse racing, what are your views, in terms 
of how the media depicts horse racing and some of the 
problems that might be associated with it, and that's just 
from your own background given your own credentials? 

But specifically, with respect to this 
Commission, I'd like to ask with the State Lottery, for 
example, there are funds that are given back to the 
schools, albeit I think too small. Within horse racing 
are there any charitable foundations, educational 
foundation from which the proceeds of horse racing are 
given to, and might those be increased? 

MR. LANDSBURG: I have a three-part question 
here. Let me put aside for a moment the treatment of 
horse racing in general media, because that's a rather 
larger question. But having been in it, they rarely touch 
horse racing, because it's not NASCAR. It's not a sport 
that enlivens the rest of the country, so it rarely deals 
with horse racing as a media event. 

As far as I know, I've made the only two part 
miniseries that's been made in television in the last 
decade. It doesn't get the kind of attention it deserves 
and I've been one of the banner carriers and I can't get 
them to look. 

Now, on the -- I'm sorry just lost the train. 
The second part of your question. 



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SENATOR ROMERO: The State lottery, for example, 
and what about proceeds from horse racing. 

MR. LANDSBURG: Yes, I'm sorry. Every race meet 
has at least one charity day. The charity money, all of 
the take for that day, all of the track take for that day 
or a percentage of it now goes into a charitable fund 
which is distributed at the end of each meeting. 

Those charitable funds are delegated 50 to 60 
percent, although not required, generally go to charities 
associated with racing. The rest go into local charities 
that take care of the people within the horse racing zone, 
that is north has its own, south has its own. And we, as 
the Board, get a report from each track as to what they 
are doing with their funds. 

It's highly regulated, and they can't give the 
funds simply willy-nilly. They must give it to local and 
statewide charities, if they so choose, and into the 
coffers of charities involved with the support of people 
within the racing community. 

SENATOR ROMERO: And if I can just ask is that 
public information where the funds are distributed? 

MR. LANDSBURG: Absolutely. It is public 
information. It's part of every board hearing. And every 
time a licensee comes up, they are required to hold these 
charitable days and deliver the monies to the charities at 

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the end of their meet. 

SENATOR ROMERO: Thank you, I'd be interested in 
learning more about this as we go forward. 

And just in closing, if I can comment. I used to 
very much like the Under Sea World of Jacques Cousteau. 

(Laughter . ) 

MR. LANDSBURG: So did I, except I got water 
logged. 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Senator Karnette . 

SENATOR KARNETTE: I agree with what you said 
about racing, if we don't get people interested in it and 
do something it's not going to be around, and I think 
Senator Burton may be right, I hope not. But do you have, 
from your experience and your ability to work with a lot. 
of people, do you see any future of getting the breeders 
and the owners and the trainers and all the other people 
that should be involved to realize the seriousness of this 
problem and get horses closer to the people. 

I mean, if you can't go touch a horse and walk 
around and see them training, I mean people just -- 
they've got to know they're real beautiful creatures. 
What are we going to do, because I don't want it to be 
like Senator Burton said? 

MR. LANDSBURG: Well, to a large extent, the 
promotion of racing falls to the racing associations and 



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they're licensing before the CHRB . They have a way of 
doing things at the moment. And because I've been 
involved in communication, I've made it my business as 
part of the thoroughbred owners and now as part of the 
CHRB to try and see if there aren't new ways. 

And, in fact, I think I've been able to encourage 
a couple of new drives, at least within the industry, to 
try and find the audience that they need. 

Essential to it is communication via the 
computer, which is a younger person's element. And within 
that element, I would hope that we can be more creative in 
outreach to the industry. And now that I have a place 
where I can make those suggestions with a little force 
behind them, I think you'll begin to see it, at least, I 
hope. That's my desire as part of the Board. 

SENATOR KARNETTE: Well, I would just like to 
say, as a legislator, if there's anyway I could help, I'd 
really like to. 

MR. LANDSBURG: Thank you. I may call back on 
you . 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: I think they're going to 
make a movie out of the New Sea Biscuit Book? And if they 
do, will it be better than the one with Barry Fitzgerald? 

MR. LANDSBURG: Because of my dual role, when I 
read the book, which is a book I recommend to one and all, 

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Sea Biscuit, an American Legend is a wonderful telling of 
racing stories, albeit in the late 1930s. 

However, I have talked to Universal and I have 
talked to the producer of the film a women named Jane 
Lyndell who has been assigned to it. They don't have a 
script yet, but I am the unpaid consultant to them, 
because I said if you make this picture badly, I'll chop 
your heads off. 

(Laughter . ) 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Did you ever see the one 
with Barry Fitzgerald? 

MR. LANDSBURG: On Sea Biscuit? 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Yeah. 

MR. LANDSBURG: I'm not old enough. 

(Laughter . ) 

SENATOR ROMERO: You set yourself up on that one. 

MR. LANDSBURG: No, I truly haven't. 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: I forget the name, but it 
runs on Turner Classic Movies, but it had Ward Bond. And 
he had great faith in the horse, even though it was 
finishing down the track quite a bit when it first started 
out . 

MR. LANDSBURG: Yeah. Actually, it was after his 
injury. He was badly injured, at one point. And he and 
his jockey, who has was also badly injured, formed the 



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lamest team that ever was put together that won races and 
created glory. 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Did you bring any family 
with you? 

MR. LANDSBURG: No. 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Any witnesses in support? 

Witnesses in opposition? 

SENATOR JOHNSON: Move approval. 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Come right up, gentlemen. 

(Laughter . ) 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Move the nomination. 

Call the roll. 

COMMITTEE SECRETARY WEB: Senator Karnette? 

SENATOR KARNETTE: Aye. 

COMMITTEE SECRETARY WEB: Karnette aye. 

Senator Knight? 

SENATOR KNIGHT: Aye. 

COMMITTEE SECRETARY WEB: Knight aye. 

Senator Romero? 

SENATOR ROMERO: Aye. 

COMMITTEE SECRETARY WEB: Romero aye. 

Senator Johnson? 

SENATOR JOHNSON: Aye. 

COMMITTEE SECRETARY WEB: Johnson aye. 

Senator Burton? 



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CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Aye. 

COMMITTEE SECRETARY WEB: Burton aye. 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Congratulations. 

MR. LANDSBURG: Thank you very much. 

(Applause . ) 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Daniel Zingale, Director 
Managed Care . 

Senator Kuehl . 

SENATOR KUEHL: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I'm 
just here to speak very briefly in favor of my friend 
Daniel Zingale, who I think was a fabulous pick for this 
agency. As you recall, Mr. Chairman we had high hopes at 
the time of the legislation about how this agency would 
function and how it might improve the delivery of health 
care services in California. 

And, in deed, I've known Dan since the 
mid-nineties and knew him in various other jobs, but now, 
most particularly, what he's already accomplished, as the 
acting director. I can't think of a better pick, and I, 
of course, urge your support. 

MR. ZINGALE: Mr. Chairman, since you were 
talking about movies, let me just briefly mention that I 
think the moment in a motion picture that most 
Californians identify with HMOs was a movie called As Good 
As It Gets, where the Helen Hunt character cursed out 



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HMOs . 

We're trying to change that in terms of people's 
perception. Since launching the Department last summer, 
we've operated on one premise when Calif ornians are sick 
and in need to see their doctor, they don't want to stand 
in line, fill out forms, wait on hold or listen to 
excuses . 

They want the health care to which they're 
entitled and in which they have invested through their 
monthly premiums and copayments. 

Under our full enforcement policy, the Department 
has strongly protected consumer rights, pursuing every 
violation of the law, issuing $1.5 million in fines, 
taking over failing HMOs and protecting consumers wherever 
necessary . 

But even the largest fine is too little too late. 
We work to stop harm before it happens and resolve 
problems early and effectively. A year ago consumers hit 
the wall when trying to resolve an HMO problem. Today, 
because of the new patient right, implemented and enforced 
by this department, Calif ornians have a range of 
assistance options available to them. 

First, we work to resolve a consumer problem up 
front, before we have to put a price tag on any 
Calif ornian' s health tragedy. More complicated problems 

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can be resolved for consumers by filing a formal 
complaint, that is reviewed by our consumer rights experts 
and in-house health care professionals. 

Finally, on medical questions or coverage for 
experimental treatments, our independent medical review 
program ensures that doctors tell HMOs what to do. 

We have developed a marketing campaign for our 
HMO help center and for consumer's rights and 
responsibilities and we're working on an awareness effort 
targeted to reach people with HMO problems. 

We're working to provide accountability 
throughout the managed health care system including prompt 
payment of claims to providers and we see the long-term 
solution for a better managed health care system. The 
only silver bullet is to bring managed health care back to 
its roots of better preventive care, providing more people 
with quality coverage by promoting preventive care that 
saves lives, cuts costs and preserves precious health care 
dollars for when we need them most. 

We have built a solid control tower to protect 
HMO consumers and provide stability in the managed health 
care industry. Now, we need to make sure consumers know 
about us and to make sure that the HMOs fly in the right 
direction. 

Thank you . 



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CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Thank you. Under the 
current law managed care regulates the HMOs and some PPOs 
while the Department of Insurance regulates the PPOs that 
aren't regulated by the Department of Managed Care, which 
would be, I guess, the indemnity plans and specialized 
plans, does that make any sense? 

MR. ZINGALE: Actually, the legislature asked us 
to study that question. The Department is currently 
looking at that. I had a good meeting with the 
Commissioner of Insurance recently. It's at least as 
confusing as you just described it to consumers. We're 
learning that from the consumer hotline when people call. 

And frankly it goes beyond that. People who have 
problems with Medicare, sometimes have to call the federal 
government. If they have problems with Medi-Cal, it's 
DHS. So it's all -- 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Well, yeah but you can't -- 
you know, one is federal and one is state, but I mean both 
of these are state. Who did that, us? 

MR. ZINGALE: A combination of the -- I'm not a 
very good historian on all that on what led us to that, 
but it is for consumers. I think you're right, a good 
start would be for this Department and the Department of 
Insurance to figure out if there's a way we can make that 
less confusing for consumers. 

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CHAIRPERSON BURTON: I'm wondering and I have no 
recollection if I ever had any collection, and -- 

SENATOR JOHNSON: We'll make a note of that. 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Yeah. You must collect 
before you recollect. 

SENATOR JOHNSON: Exactly. 

(Laughter . ) 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: It seemed to me that I guess 
it was the industry that wanted to stay under insurance. 
I mean, do you have any -- but I guess it's something that 
you are doing a study on it, you and the Department of 
Insurance? 

MR. ZINGALE: Right. 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: And when do you think that 
will be -- the study is going to show people are confused 
and then you're going to recommend -- 

MR. ZINGALE: We'll make a recommendation. I 
don't want to prejudge the process because there's a lot 
of research to do on it. 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Well, there isn't a hell of 
a lot, people are confused, and the question is should 
they be combined and would the Insurance Commissioner give 
up jurisdiction? 

MR. ZINGALE: He seems not at all territorial 
about this issue. He seemed very open. What I did in our 



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conversation is I tried to separate that into at least two 
issues, which is can we address the consumer point of 
entry problem separate from the regulatory -- the bigger 
issue, of regulation, because apparently there are some 
complex issues involved with moving the regulation of some 
of these indemnity plans over to us. Some are plans that 
don't -- health is just a small piece of their portfolio 
even though they do health care, but I've just got to 
believe there's a way we can make that invisible to the 
patients at least. 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: When they call into the 
hotline, they get a person or they get a computer? 

MR. ZINGALE: They get a person. 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Well, then if they get a 
person and the person said what is your plan and they say 
it ' s Aetna Insurance Indemnity, then would the recipient 
of the call say, you have to call 1-800, you know, help 
over there or is that what you're trying to figure how to 
do? 

MR. ZINGALE: In the interim we ' re - - 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Would you take down the 
complaint and you can send it over to the Insurance. 

MR. ZINGALE: We help them. 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: And vice versa. 

MR. ZINGALE: And we have permission from the 



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Department of Insurance to do that, yeah. 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Okay. When there were 
negotiations between Sutter and Blue Cross and there was a 
breakdown in service, that I guess did you learn from that 
how to prevent breakdowns in service? 

MR. ZINGALE: I think there were a number of 
important lessons from that and other disruptions that 
have happened just in the few months we've been in 
existence . 

For example, just to give you an anecdotal 
example that I think makes it clear that patients were 
affected by that in very real terms, we had a woman whose 
son had a blood clot of the brain who was scheduled for a 
procedure in a Sutter facility, her insurance was Blue 
Cross. She we told by both Sutter and by Blue Cross that 
the procedure could not take place as scheduled because of 
their contract dispute. 

In fact, you all made that illegal in your HMO 
reforms of 1999, so when she called the help center, we 
were able to quickly inform her of that, get the plan on 
the line and reverse their decision. But that's a 
dramatic illustration of what a lot of patients went 
through in terms of uncertainty and mixed signals and 
misinformation. 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Senator Johnson. 



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SENATOR JOHNSON: Your statement seemed to me to 


be basically entirely about looking at the activities of 


the Department coming from the perspective of defense of 


consumers and protection of consumers. 


Since you don't touch on it, I will ask, what do 


you think is the role in making this whole process more 


user friendly for the regulated entities, so that it's 


easier for them to understand the rules of the game or the 


rules of engagement and how they're going to be judged and 


so on, making it easier for them in the process? Is there 


a role or is that totally an adversarial situation? 


MR. ZINGALE: No, I don't think that it is. I 


think, in fact, we've made some real progress in terms of 


giving the regulated entities a more consistent and 


efficient regulatory response. They don't have to wait 


unfair amounts of time to get decisions out of us, nor do 


they have to sort of try to guess which way we ' 11 come 


down on issues. We're trying to be much more consistent 


and efficient in those decisions. 


But my background is as a patient advocate. And 


I don't apologize for that. I think having a patient 


centered approach to the oversight of HMOs is a good 


thing, but no I don't think it has to be done in an 


adversarial way. And I genuinely can tell you we've found 


ways to make the process more efficient for the plans. 

■ - 



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SENATOR JOHNSON: Well, you know, I view your 
responsibility as being somewhat of a referee or an umpire 
as well. And if you go in with the bias that's slanted 
too much in one direction or the other, in the past 
predecessor agencies have been criticized for being to 
lax, too friendly with the regulated entities. And if you 
go in with an attitude that says, you know, my job is to 
defend the consumer at all costs, I think that's just -- 
you know, it's going in the wrong direction as well. 

MR. ZINGALE: I understand what you're saying. I 
can give you one example that might reassure you to some 
extent. We have a pilot program in the HMO Help Center, 
where when a patient, like the one I described earlier, 
calls with a problem, they don't usually call because 
things are going well, but they call with problems with 
their HMO, two health plans have voluntarily agreed to do 
a pilot program with us where we get the plan rep on the 
found at the same time with the patient and our patient 
right's expert and try to resolve the problem on the phone 
before anybody gets off, before any forms are filed, 
before there's any legal action, before it becomes an 
adversarial situation where harm has already been done. 

So I think the plans would probably be as excited 
about that approach as we are. 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Senator Karnette . 



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SENATOR KARNETTE: No questions. 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Senator Romero. 

SENATOR ROMERO: Thank you. And I applaud you in 
trying to emphasize prevention. Let me ask you with 
respect to prevention as it pertains to sexually 
transmitted diseases and what your thoughts are on this, 
because I was reading the statistics that indicate that 
the percentage of HMO's offering prevention services tied 
to sexually transmitted diseases has dropped from 50 
percent to 24 percent. 

But the percentage of HMOs offering HIV and AIDS 
services prevention services have dropped from 47 percent 
to 28 percent. I represent a good part of Los Angeles 
County especially within the Latino community, and by the 
way Viena Estad is in my district and Oscar, speaks very 
highly of you. Can you tell me what you will do to -- on 
some of the issues like Chlamidia. 

We have information. We can do prevention, yet 
in LA county, it's up. What will you do and how will you 
bring a culturally appropriate angle to getting out 
prevention services, not only the services, but the 
information for a very diverse community in - - well, 
statewide, but I'm interested especially in LA county. 

MR. ZINGALE: I think the statistics you referred 
to are from a recent UC Berkeley study, which is very 



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troubling if you consider that the basic founding 
principle of managed health was that we would invest 
aggressively in preventive health and therefore save 
dollars, so that when people truly need care, they would 
get it. 

And the evidence -- that study suggested in the 
last three or four years they've actually been moving in 
the wrong direction on STD prevention and HIV/AIDS 
prevention in particular. 

The numbers for smoke cessation are also very 
troubling. A majority of adult smokers who are enrolled 
in HMOs in California say they've received zero smoking 
cessation even though there are proven interventions that 
will save a tremendous amount in terms of dollars, human 
suffering and lives. 

What we can do now, as a Department, is we can 
vigorously enforce the preventive health mandates that you 
included in the 99 reforms. There is resistance in the 
industry to investing in preventive health, some of what I 
understand. Today's enrollees are much more transitory 
that anyone believed they would be, so the long-term 
investment in someone's health does not necessarily 
benefit your bottom line, if you look at it from a plain 
parochial point of view. 

Many of the plans are under tremendous short-term 



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pressure from their shareholders on a quarterly basis, and 


preventive health investments don't always payoff in that 


way. But now it's the law in certain areas in terms of 




mammograms, in terms of diabetes. 


We had a letter from a man recently who couldn't 


get his $2 diabetes test strips reimbursed, a relatively 


low cost intervention that obviously saves a lot in terms 


of dollars. And mental health, which I view as a 


preventive health benefit as well. There are now mandates 


in those areas that we can enforce that are law. 


Beyond that, I spend a lot of time talking to the 


plans not in an adversarial way but asking them to 


voluntarily do a better job in the area of STDs, in the 


area of smoking cessation, in the area of drug and alcohol 


abuse prevention. 


SENATOR ROMERO: And if you could address the 


culturally appropriate as well. 


MR. ZINGALE: Sure. I mean one of the things we 


can do at the Department is set a good example. Our help 


center, which is available 24 hours a day, every day of 


the year, is available in any language any Californian 


calls in. That can be arranged through translation 


services and having in-house Spanish speakers. 


We're producing our materials at least in 


English, Chinese and Spanish. So what I'd like to do is 


1 



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look, not too far down the road, at how we can hold the 
HMOs to the standard that we're able to achieve in terms 
of customer service . 

The State doesn't have a reputation for doing the 
best in terms of excellence in customer service. If we 
can do that, I think it's fair for us to ask the plans to 
be as culturally sensitive and responsive. 

SENATOR ROMERO: Thank you. 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: If I can, before I call on 
Senator Knight. On the sexually transmitted diseases, I 
mean I can only think of two preventions condemns and 
abstinence. I mean, neither seems to be a fairly high 
cost deal. 

MR. ZINGALE: Right. 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: I mean, in other words, they 
are not, either- with targeted -- 

SENATOR JOHNSON: A well funded investment, and 
so on. 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: I mean would targeted 
communities not sending out information and not -- I can't 
remember, you know, the Speier Bill or somebody's bill 
where you have to provide condemns or not. 

SENATOR KNIGHT: Put it on the condemn itself. 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: But basically, I mean that 
doesn't -- when you get into diabetes, when you get into 



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prostate cancer, when you get into mammograms, you may be 
getting in costs, you may be get into something. 

I mean, this is like chump change. I mean am I 
missing something? 

MR. ZINGALE: No, you're exactly right. That is 
why I think it's a good example of how tragic it is that 
we're failing to invest in those low-cost proven 
interventions, especially when you consider that in the 
case of some sexually transmitted diseases like, HIV, the 
cost of the drugs alone now is $15,000 a year. That's 
apart from all the auxiliary medical care that you need. 
No question that that would make sense for everyone. 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Senator Knight. 

SENATOR KNIGHT: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Do you know a Joe Gottfried? 

MR. ZINGALE: I don't think so, sir. 

SENATOR KNIGHT: That's good. Boy. 

(Laughter . ) 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Dodged that one. 

(Laughter . ) 

SENATOR KNIGHT: Second question. 

SENATOR ROMERO: Should we know? 

SENATOR KNIGHT: No, no, no, but I just wondered. 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Well, let me get that off my 
chest . 



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SENATOR KNIGHT: Yeah, Inyo county a very small 
county in the eastern side of the Sierras, the HMOs left 
the county. 

MR. ZINGALE: Yes. 

SENATOR KNIGHT: The people who were utilizing 
those HMOs now have no place to go. Is there anything in 
mind or any program that you're thinking of to satisfy 
some of these requirements? 

MR. ZINGALE: That's probably something for you, 
the policymakers, to contemplate. We don't have the 
authority, at this point, to stop a doctor from leaving an 
area or moving out of State or an HMO -- 

SENATOR KNIGHT: Or an HMO. 

MR. ZINGALE: -- from choosing not to do business 
in an area. 

SENATOR KNIGHT: Okay. The next one, is it your 
opinion that the HMO's are obligated to provide the best 
possible health care in terms of technology from whatever 
place? 

MR. ZINGALE: I would use the term medically 
necessary. I think that would be more consistent with the 
law . 

SENATOR KNIGHT: What is -- 

MR. ZINGALE: I think I understand what you're 
asking, Senator. In other words, if there's a center of 



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exce 


Hence somewhere, is 


every HMO obliged to 


send every 


enro 


llee to that center 


of excellence . 






SENATOR KNIGHT: 


No. Is the patient 


entitled to 


that 


kind of health care 


•p 






MR. ZINGALE: I 


think the patient is 


entitled to 


medically necessary care 


• 






SENATOR KNIGHT: 


Thank you. 






SENATOR KARNETTE: That takes out face lifts. 




( Laughter . ) 








SENATOR KNIGHT: 


No comment . 






(Laughter . ) 








SENATOR KARNETTE: I have a question 


about you 


were 


talking about AIDS 


and HIV, and the information. But 


one 


Df the problems, is 


it not, that a lot of 


people, even 


thou 


gh condemns would really -- and abstinence are the two 


things that prevent it. 


But we have to tell people that 


over 


and over and over, 


and that ' s what costs 


the money. 




MR. ZINGALE: The counseling, that's 


right. You 


know 


one comparison I sometimes use is seat belts. We all 


know 


that seat belts save lives. It's very basic. It's 


as b 


asic as STD prevention, but it helps remind people 


over 


and over again that 


they have to do it. 






I have to admit 


when my six year old 


from the 


back 


seat, says, "Papa, 


put your seatbelt on, • 


it's a good 


remi 


nder, even though I 


know better. I think 


it ' s like 



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39 



that when it's broken down to the basics. 

SENATOR ROMERO: Can I jump in and just ask a 
follow-up question. You talked about what's medically 
necessary. Is prevention, again, going to like STD 
prevention, is that medically necessary? 

MR. ZINGALE: Yes, in my view, it is. 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Is there a distinction 
between necessary and desirable? 

MR. ZINGALE: Yes. 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Is it closer to desirable 
than necessary? 

MR. ZINGALE: The law is necessary. 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: No, no. The law says that 
they must provide, but I was talking about what Senator 
Romero was talking about. And I think it's important, I 
just wondered whether it was medically necessary or 
medically desirable? 

MR. ZINGALE: In my view, preventive health is 
basic health care, but again the law is only specific in 
those areas where the reforms identified mammograms, 
diabetes and mental health. That's an open question, I 
think, when it comes to substance abuse treatment. 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: And then what Senator Knight 
was talking about, you can't stop somebody from going out 
of business, not even a utility. 

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40 

(Laughter . ) 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: But is there something the 
Department could do to provide emergency alternate service 
in a place like Inyo. I mean, what happens everybody is 
back on a fee for service or where the hell are these 
people? 

I mean, is there something that you can do, is 
there something that we should enact to allow you to do 
something, because I don't think we can pass a bill 
telling somebody, you know, they've got to keep serving 
people, they've got to keep doing something? But I mean, 
to rush in and fill the void, is there something that you 
can do under your current charter or is there something 
that we could maybe change to take care of a situation 
like that? 

MR. ZINGALE: Currently, we do have some 
continuity of care laws, which we can use at least in 
transition. They're not long-term solutions for those 
patients, but we soften the fall for patients in 
situations and whatever the disruption is, whether there, 
is a contract breakdown or a -- 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: So you can pick up the costs 
of fee for service or what? I mean, how would that work? 

MR. ZINGALE: We can oblige the HMO to provide 
some continuity of care for certain situations. For 



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41 

example, if someone has an acute condition or is in 
late-stage pregnancy, there are some areas like that we 
can intervene. There are other continuity of care bills 
in discussion in the legislature this year, I know. 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: And then the -- and I'm not 
sure what the question was getting at, but Senator Knight 
said, if somebody has got, and I guess the easiest and 
stupidest example would be, there are MRI machines which 
if you have a tendency to be a little bit claustrophobic, 
can get to you. Then there's some open MRI machines. 

And I mean, this is a very far reach example, but 
I mean, you know, would everybody have to have an open MRI 
machine -- I mean he's talking about like the optimum 
versus what would be basic and take care of the person's 
thing. I didn't quite get what the answer was, because 
the answer you said what's medically necessary. 

Now, what's medically necessary is an MRI. And 
it doesn't have to be open, unless maybe you know, he says 
Doctor, I do this and I go completely nuts. 

MR. ZINGALE: Right. The definition of medical 
necessity would be left to doctors. So that's what I 
think the heart of the reform was the independent medical 
review, because ultimately it would be a panel of 
independent doctors that we've now set up that have no 
economic interest in the health plan who would make a 



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42 

determination as to whether that procedure was necessary. 

I could see just in that hypothetical situation, 
doctors thinking that maybe someone's psychological 
condition relative to that procedure was such that they 
did, in fact, need -- it was medically necessary for them 
to have the one over the other. 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Okay, all right. 

Did, I interrupt you, Senator Karnette, or are you 
through? 

SENATOR KARNETTE: I'm finished. 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Did you bring any family 
with you? 

MR. ZINGALE: I invited my sons who are six and 
two. They respectfully declined. 

(Laughter . ) 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Smarter than the old man. 

Witnesses in support? 

MS. CAPELL: Beth Capell on behalf of Health 
Access California, and also the Service Employees 
International Union. We're pleased to be here today. We. 
have found that the new Department of Managed Care and its 
director have a distinctly different attitude towards 
consumers and also towards workers than their predecessor. 

I also want to respond however to Senator 
Johnson's questions, because one of the things that we 

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43 

discovered after the Patient Bill of Rights became law is 
that the health plans had been as annoyed by erratic 
enforcement as we were . Knowing what the rules of the 
game are is an important thing for consumers and also for 
those who are regulated by the Department. 

We've worked very closely with the Department 
during its first months of operation, and have found the 
door open. 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Yes. 

MS. SWARTZ : Marjorie Swartz, representing Center 
on Law and Poverty. I'd been warned that the Chair was 
above average impatient with the length of time that these 
confirmations were taking, so I'll keep it brief and 
besides I know he's not as interested in this. 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Times up, then. 

(Laughter . ) 

MS. SWARTZ: I know you're not as interested as 
you are in horse racing. We are strongly supportive of 
Mr. Zingale's appointment and confirmation. As you have 
heard, the HMO call center is extremely receptive right 
now to consumers. The advocates that we deal with have 
had very good experiences. 

One of the reforms that he has implemented is 
having a medical expert right on the premises. And our 
advocates feel that this has expedited resolution of 



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44 



problems to a great degree. Also, we have found that his 
style is to bring in all involved parties, to talk about 
the issues and try to resolve them before they become 
escalated . 

And I think that as Ms. Capell said, Senator 
Johnson would find that the plans are happy with that 
approach. And it does improve their relationships with 
the Department generally. 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Thank you. 

Witnesses in opposition? 

Move the nomination. 

SENATOR KARNETTE: Move. 

COMMITTEE SECRETARY WEB: Senator Karnette? 

SENATOR KARNETTE : Aye . 

COMMITTEE SECRETARY WEB: Karnette aye. 

Senator Knight? 

SENATOR KNIGHT: Aye. 

COMMITTEE SECRETARY WEB: Knight aye? 

Senator Romero? 

SENATOR ROMERO: Aye. 

COMMITTEE SECRETARY WEB: Romero aye. 

Senator Johnson? 

SENATOR JOHNSON: Aye. 

COMMITTEE SECRETARY WEB: Johnson aye. 

Senator Burton? 



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45 



CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Aye. 
COMMITTEE SECRETARY WEB: Burton aye 
CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Congratulations 
Thank you . 

MR. ZINGALE: Thank you very much. 
(Applause . ) 



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46 

CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER 
I, JAMES F. PETERS a Certified Shorthand 
Reporter of the State of California, and Registered 
Professional Reporter, do hereby certify: 

That I am a disinterested person herein; that the 
foregoing Senate Rules hearing was reported in shorthand 
by me, James F. Peters, a Certified Shorthand Reporter of 
the State of California, and thereafter transcribed into 
typewriting . 

. I further certify that I am not of counsel or 
attorney for any of the parties to said hearing nor in any 
way interested in the outcome of said hearing. 

IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set my hand 
this 11th day of June, 2001. 




^). 




JAMES F. PETERS, CSR, RPR 
Certified Shorthand Reporter 



25 License No. 10063 



PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 3 62-2345 



428-R 
Additional copies of this publication may be purchased for $3.00 per copy 
(includes shipping and handling) plus current California sales tax. 



Senate Publications 

1020 N Street, Room B-53 

Sacramento, CA 95814 

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Please include Stock Number 428-R when ordering. 









2 HEARING 



SENATE RULES COMMITTEE 

STATE OF CALIFORNIA 




DOCUMENTS DEPT. 

JUL 1 8 2001 

SAN FRANCISCO 
PUBLIC LIBRARY 



STATE CAPITOL 

ROOM 3191 

SACRAMENTO, CALIFORNIA 

MONDAY, MAY 30, 2001 
1:35 P.M. 



429- R 







SENATE RULES COMMITTEE 




STATE OF CALIFORNIA 




HEARING 




STATE CAPITOL 




ROOM 3191 




SACRAMENTO, CALIFORNIA 




WEDNESDAY, MAY 30, 2001 




1:35 P.M. 




REPORTED BY: 




JAMES F. PETERS, CSR, RPR 




CERTIFIED SHORTHAND REPORTER 




LICENSE NUMBER 10063 





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APPEARANCES 
MEMBERS PRESENT 

SENATOR JOHN BURTON, Chair 

SENATOR ROSS JOHNSON, Vice Chair 

SENATOR BETTY KARNETTE 

SENATOR WILLIAM KNIGHT 

SENATOR GLORIA ROMERO 

STAFF PRESENT 

GREG SCHMIDT, Executive Officer 

PAT WEBB, Committee Secretary 

NETTIE SABELHAUS, Consultant on Governor's Appointments 

SUSIE SWATT, Consultant to Senator Johnson 

TIM SHELLEY, Consultant to Senator Karnette 

CHRIS BURNS, Consultant to Senator Knight 

RYAN SHERMAN, Consultant to Senator Romero 

ALSO PRESENT 

MELISSA M. MEITH, Director 
Office of Administrative Hearings 

LINDA MOULTON- PATTERSON, Member 

California Integrated Waste Management Board 

MICHAEL PAPARIAN, Member 

California Integrated Waste Management Board 

HARROLD SCHAITBERCER 

International Association of Fire Fighters 



PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 



APPEARANCES CONTINED 



ALSO PRESENT 



JOHN J. TENNANT, 
State Fire Marshal 

DAN TERRY, 

California Professional Fire Fighters 



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INDEX 



Page 



Proceedings 1 

Governor's Appointees: 

MELISSA M. MEITH, Director 

Office of Administrative Hearings 1 

Statement by Ms . Meith 1 

Motion to Confirm 2 

Committee Action 3 

LINDA MOULTON- PATTERSON, Member 

California Integrated Waste Management Board 3 

Statement by Ms. Moulton-Patterson 3 

Statement of Support by Senator Chesbro 5 

Questions by Senator Romero 

How have you begun to address concerns 
regarding the State Auditor's concerns over 
your ability to fine? 8 

Give information on how the Board has been 
arguing for fines for people who aren't 
upholding the law. 8 

What is your philosophy regarding cities 
who are out of compliance but are making 
progress? 9 

Questions by Senator Knight 

What can you do to be able to allow waste 
tires to be used for oil and metal and 
whatever else? 11 



Motion to Confirm 
Committee Action 



12 
12 



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INDEX CONTINUED 



Page 



MICHAEL PAPARIAN, Member 

California Integrated Waste Management Board 13 

Statement of support by Senator Chesbro 13 

Statement by Mr. Paparian 15 

Questions by Senator Romero 

Delineate your philosophy on fining cities 

out of compliance 17 

Motion to Confirm 18 

Committee Action 18 



JOHN J. TENNANT, 
State Fire Marshal 

Statement by Mr. Tennant 

Witnesses in Support: 

DAN TERRY, 

California Professional Fire Fighters 

HARROLD SCHAITBERCER, 

International Association of Fire Fighters 

Motion to Confirm 

Committee Action 
Termination of Proceedings 
Reporter's Certificate 



19 
19 



21 

22 
24 
25 
26 
27 



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PROCEEDINGS 


SENATOR JOHNSON: Melissa Meith, Director, Office 


of Administrative Hearings. And before you begin your 


presentation, you've got to tell the acting chair how you 


pronounce your name . 


MS. MEITH: You did it correctly. It's Meith. 


Thank you . 


SENATOR JOHNSON: Good afternoon. 


MS. MEITH: Senator Johnson and members. I am 


Melissa Meith. I'm honored to be here today to ask for 


your recommendation that I be confirmed as Director of the 


Office of Administrative Hearings. OAH is basically the 


State's own court system. OAH judges hear and decide 


disputes between the State agencies and individuals they 


regulate . 


For example, if a real estate agent is notified 


that his or her license is going to be revoked and the 


licensee wants to appeal that decision, OAH provides the 


Court room, the judge and follows the Administrative 


Procedures Act to reach a decision in that case. 


I'm pleased to be serving as Director of OAH. 


I've spent 20 years practicing administrative law as the 


State's Counsel and also in private practice. I respect 


and understand the importance of OAH and I'm committed to 


continuing and furthering its mission of providing fair, 



PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 



accurate and accessible hearings for all of the parties. 

I'm also studying ways to make the process more 
efficient and timely. For example, forms can be 
consolidated, processes in the four OAH offices can be 
made consistent, and our regulations need to be reviewed 
and updated. We're in the process of doing all those 
things. And we can learn from processes that have worked 
in other states and in our own state courts to make 
justice more speedy and more understandable for all 
involved . 

Thank you. That concludes my prepared statement 
I'd be glad to answer any questions. 

SENATOR JOHNSON: Well, let's see if there are 
any. 

Senator Knight, have you any questions? 

SENATOR KNIGHT: No questions. 

SENATOR JOHNSON: Senator Karnette? 

SENATOR KARNETTE: No questions. 

SENATOR JOHNSON: Do you have any members of 
your family here? 

MS. MEITH: No, not today. 

SENATOR JOHNSON: No special guests? 

MS. MEITH: I'm wearing my great grandmother's 
cameo . 

SENATOR JOHNSON: All right. Secretary, call 



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3 


the roll . 




COMMITTEE SECRETARY WEBB: 


Support or opposition? 


Did you ask that? 




SENATOR JOHNSON: Support 


or opposition? 


Call the roll. 




COMMITTEE SECRETARY WEBB: 


Senator Karnette? 


SENATOR KARNETTE : Aye . 




COMMITTEE SECRETARY WEBB: 


Karnette aye. 


Senator Knight? 




SENATOR KNIGHT: Aye. 




COMMITTEE SECRETARY WEBB: 


Knight aye. 


Senator Romero? 




SENATOR ROMERO: Aye. 




COMMITTEE SECRETARY WEBB: 


Romero Aye . 


Senator Johnson? 




SENATOR JOHNSON: Aye. 




COMMITTEE SECRETARY WEBB: 


Johnson aye . 


Four to zero. 




MS. MEITH: Thank you. 




(Applause . ) 




SENATOR JOHNSON: Congrat 


ulations . 


Linda Moulton-Patterson, a 


member of the 


California Integrated Waste Management Board and a 


distinguished citizen of my home county. 


MS. MOULTON-PATTERSON: Good afternoon, Chairman 



PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 



Johnson 


4 
and members of the Rules Committee. I'm Linda 


Moulton 


-Patterson . 


And it's my pleasure to be here this 


afternoon seeking 


your confirmation of my reappointment as 


a member of the Ca 


lifornia Integrated Waste Management 


Board. 








I would a 


lso like to take a moment to introduce 


my husb. 


and, former 


Congressman Jerry Patterson, who's back 


here somewhere . 






(Applause 


. ) 




MS. MOULTON- PATTERSON: I was appointed to this 


position in 1999 and was proud to be confirmed by the 


Senate . 


I'm honored to have been reappointed by Governor 


Davis . 








As a former teacher and school board member for 


seven y 


=ars, I focused a great deal of my time in the last 


several 


months on 


environmental education. This year we 


instituted the Off 


ice of Environmental Education at the 


Board. 


We ' ve also 


been working closely with Senator 


Torlakson and his 


efforts to increase recycling and waste 


reduction in schoo 


Is. 




While on 


the City Council and as Mayor of 


Hunting 


ton Beach, 


I was very involved in helping set the 


strateg 


ic vision f 


or the success of our city reaching a 63 


percent 


diversion 


rate. My understanding of the local 


issues 


has provide 


d invaluable insights in serving as 



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Chair of the Board since June 2000. 

In the last year, I have led our board through a 
series of discussions on environmental justice concerns 
that affect our policies and the protection of the public 
health and environment for all of the citizens of 
California. I also look forward to leading our Board in 
the development and investigation of new technologies in 
the promotion of waste to energy. 

I have recently set direction by requesting that 
all policies and procedures be brought forward for the 
current board to review. This includes all enforcement 
related policies and procedures. I believe my seven years 
on the Huntington Beach Union High School Board of 
trustees, four years on the Huntington Beach City Council 
as council member and Mayor and five years on the 
California Coastal Commission have prepared me well to 
serve on the Waste Board. 

It has been my pleasure and honor to serve the 
people of California as Chair of the Waste Board. 

Thank you very much for your time and 
consideration of my confirmation. 

I will be happy to answer any questions. 

SENATOR JOHNSON: Senator Chesbro did you just 
wander in. 

SENATOR CHESBRO: I'm here for my belated 



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6 
introduction of Ms. Moulton-Patterson and if you would 


indulge me, I'd like to do that. 


SENATOR JOHNSON: I'll will absolutely. 


SENATOR CHESBRO: Mr. Chair and members, I, you 


may recall, was the Senate's appointee and one of the 


founding members of the Integrated Waste Management Board 


for the eight years prior to my running for the seat in 


the State Senate. 


And I, over the years, before that as a local 


Governor official had the opportunity to get to know Linda 


Moulton-Patterson as somebody who is very strongly 


committed to the legislative mandate that was provided in 


AB 939 and given to the Integrated Waste Management Board. 


I was extremely pleased that the Governor chose 


to make an appointment of somebody of such high caliber, 


in particular, the fact that the majority of the 


responsibility for this law falls on cities and counties, 


and on local governments, to have somebody who is so 


clearly committed to reducing the State's waste stream, to 


protecting the environment, but also has an understanding 


of the obstacles and difficulties that local governments 


face in trying to make this law work. That's the balance 


that I tried to bring to the Board. 


And when the Governor appointed her to the Board 


and she became chair, it was quite reassuring to me that 



PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 



the 


Waste Board was going 


7 
to continue to move forward and 


imp 


lement the Legislature 


's vision that it laid out 


in AB 


939 


, so I'm very pleased 


to be here to belatedly introduce 


her 


, now that she ' s made 


here presentation and also 


to 


off 


sr my support for her 


confirmation . 






SENATOR JOHNSON: 


Thank you, sir. 






MS. MOULTON- PATTERSON: Thank you, Senator 




Che 


sbro . 








CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Senator Knight. 






SENATOR KNIGHT: 


Have we got two reporters? 






CHAIRPERSON BURTON: One is in training, 




pre 


-flight. 








SENATOR KNIGHT: 


What? 






CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Pre- flight. 






SENATOR JOHNSON: 


So talk fast . 






SENATOR KNIGHT: 


Let ' s see how fast we can 


talk. 




CHAIRPERSON BURTON: That was it? 






(Laughter . ) 








SENATOR KNIGHT: 


That was it. I didn't kno 


w what 


was 


going on. Nobody exp 


lained it to me. 






SENATOR JOHNSON: 


Blame it on your predecessor 


as 


chair . 








CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Senator Johnson. 






SENATOR JOHNSON: 


No questions, sir. 






CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Senator Romero. 





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SENATOR ROMERO: 


Thank you . 


8 
And I appreciate 


that you 


came and spoke 


with me regarding especially my 


interest 


in landfills ir 


i particular. 






Let me just ask 


. you, because I 


was concerned 


about th 


e State Auditor' 


s report released in 2000 


regarding recommendations for the Board 


and some concerns 


as to how the Board has 


had oversight regarding continuing 


problems 


with landfills. 








You and I had a 


. long discussion about that 


yesterda 


y, particularly 


with respect to 


the Board ■ s 


ability 


to fine or its c 


hoice not to fine. Can you 


delineate for me, first 


of all, of the 


recommendations 


made by 


the State Auditor, how you have 


begun to address 


these concerns and what 


you will intend 


to do as you go 


forward? 










And, secondly, 


if you can give 


me some 


information on what the 


Board has done, 


what you have done 


in terms 


of arguing for 


fines for those 


entities that have 


not met 


the standards, t 


>een out of comp 


liance and simply 


haven ' t , 


I believe, beer 


i upholding the 


standards that I 


think we 


should be upholding? 






MS. MOULTON- PATTERSON: Thank 


you, Senator 


Romero . 


And we certainl 


y take the audit record very 


seriously and we have a 


time line at th 


e Board where we ■ re 


discussing each of the recommendations 


and trying to come 



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up with some possibilities of seeking legislative fixes or 
legislative streamlining -- to seek legislation to 
streamline the process for imposing civil penalties, 
because we are very limited. 

And in May we held a discussion and we directed 
staff to come back with statutory barriers that we have in 
imposing effective civil penalties. And that report is 
going to be before us in June. 

We're also very concerned about taking landfill 
capacity into account and getting our database more up to 
date. As you know and as we discussed, you know, a lot of 
these are local decisions that come to us at the very end, 
and we are following them very closely and we would like 
to take into consideration that we have possible 
legislative action on having environmental justice as one 
of the bases for being able to object to a permit for a 
landfill expansion or siting. 

SENATOR ROMERO: Can I just ask a follow-up 
question with respect to specifically fining. What is 
your policy or your philosophy in terms of cities out of 
compliance, yet they've been making progress? In a case 
like that -- maybe you can tell me how many times perhaps 
those issues have come before you and sort of what choices 
do you make, how are you guided by whether or not to fine 
or to say well, they're making progress, let me let them 

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10 


go a 


little bit further. 




MS. MOULTON- PATTERSON: In 1995, the statute 


required that the cities be at 25 percent diversion rate 


from 


the landfills. Not all of them met that. At that 


point 


, we were unable, statutorily, to impose a fine. 


What 


we did is we put, I believe it was, 393 on compliance 


orders, most of those have -- I think there's 30 left. 


Most 


of them have made great progress with the help from 


our 1 


ocal assistance team. We have a very good web page 


on he 


lping cities . 




And when we get the numbers in we'll have all the 


numbers in for 2000 in August of this year, then we will 


take 


another look and see -- we look at the numbers, the 


percentage, and then we look at the programs. And as I 


said 


to you yesterday, coming from local government, I 


know 


how much money and time and resources cities and the 


waste 


industry has put into the cities and counties that 


are doing a good job, so I would certainly not be opposed 


to imposing a fine for cities that are not following AB 


939 . 






SENATOR ROMERO: Okay. 




CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Senator Knight? 




SENATOR KNIGHT: Yes, thank you, Mr. Chairman. 


Tires 


, lots of tires. 




MS. MOULTON-PATTERSON: Thirty million a year, 



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yes . 






SENATOR KNIGHT: Is that all? It's less than I 


thought . 


But in any event, I have had in my district two 


or three 


different companies come in and have cited 


processes for disposing of tires and reducing it to oil 


and metal and whatever else they can get out of it. 




But we can't get those things approved for some 


reason . 


Is there anything you can do in that arena? 




MS. MOULTON- PATTERSON: We're working very hard 


to find 


good uses . For example, crumb rubber made from 


tires . 


We're working very closely with CalTrans right 


now . We 


had a few glitches, but we're working with them 


to use them in their highways. We've also given a lot of 


grants f 


or playground mats, tires are used in playground 


mats. And those are two good uses. And we're doing our 


best . 






We've just turned in a five-year plan, tire plan, 


that has 


a very aggressive cleanup and enforcement element 


to it, and that will be coming over to you.. It just was 


sent to 


CalEPA, but we're doing everything we can to help 


get those tires into recycled products. 




SENATOR KNIGHT: That product is fine, but you 


have to 


have some mechanism by which you get to that 


product . 






MS. MOULTON- PATTERSON: That's right. 



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SENATOR KNIGHT: "That's my problem. I've had two 


or three 


companies come in and we're willing to, you know, 


give them land, et cetera. 




MS. MOULTON- PATTERSON: We're working very 


closely with the crumb rubber tire people. There was some 


problems 


with -- they were having competition from British 


Columbia 


And I think we've worked that out. And 


Director 


Moralez and I have been communicating and 


hopefully they'll be using California tires in rubberized 


asphalt . 






CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Senator Karnette? 




SENATOR KARNETTE: No questions. 




CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Do you have family to 


introduce? 




MS. MOULTON- PATTERSON: Yes, Former Congressman 


Jerry Patterson, my husband, is here again with me. And 


I'd like 


to reintroduce him. 




CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Witnesses in support, 


briefly? 






Witnesses in opposition, even more briefly? 




(Laughter . ) 




CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Move approval. 




Call the roll. 




COMMITTEE SECRETARY WEBB: Senator Karnette? 




SENATOR KARNETTE: Aye. 



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COMMITTEE SECRETARY WEBB: 


Karnette aye. 


Senator Knight? 




SENATOR KNIGHT: Aye. 




COMMITTEE SECRETARY WEBB: 


Knight aye. 


Senator Romero? 




SENATOR ROMERO: Aye. 




COMMITTEE SECRETARY WEBB: 


Romero aye . 


Senator Johnson? 




SENATOR JOHNSON: Aye. 




COMMITTEE SECRETARY WEBB: 


Johnson aye . 


Senator Burton? 




CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Aye. 




COMMITTEE SECRETARY WEBB: 


Burton aye . 


CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Congratulations. 


(Applause . ) 




CHAIRPERSON BURTON: How many people are here for 


the Fire Marshal? 




Do you have any concept of 


what kind of a hazard 


you're creating by overpopulating the room? 


(Laughter . ) 




CHAIRPERSON BURTON: There 


's a big brush fire out 


by Lincoln. Michael Paparian, Member, California 


Integrated Waste Management Board. 




Senator Chesbro. 




SENATOR CHESBRO: Mr. Chairman and members, I'm 



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also very privileged to, this afternoon, introduce Michael 


Paparian. Now, just for context, some of you were here 


when AB 939 passed, but the Integrated Waste Management 


Board is made up of four at-large public representatives 


and they're representative of the solid waste management 


industry, they're representative of the environmental 


community . 


Michael was appointed by the Governor to 


represent the environmental community, and that's a very, 


very important role on this board relative to both the 


waste reduction side of the equation and advocating very 


strongly for that, but also that permitting regulatory 


function that Senator Romero asked about. And I think 


that we, in California, are quite privileged to have the 


Governor having made an appointment of somebody who 


clearly has the credentials, the history and the 


commitment to do that, fulfill that responsibility 


representing the environmental community. 


Many of you know him. He represented the Sierra 


Club in the halls of the Legislature for many years. And 


so I don't really need to go into the details of his 


resume, except to tell you that he's an effective advocate 


representative of the environmental concerns, and I'm 


pleased to be able to introduce him and support him and 


encourage your confirmation of him. 



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CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Thank you, Senator. We have 


your thing in the record, so if you briefly 


want to 


comment, then we can go for some questions. 




MR. PAPARIAN: Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and 


members. I am Mike Paparian. And I come b 


efore you as an 


appointee to the Integrated Waste Management Board. I was 


appointed to the environmental seat on the 


Waste Board 


just over a year ago. I filled out the end 


of a term. I 


was confirmed by you last year and I was re 


appointed to a 


full four-year term in January. 




As Senator Chesbro mentioned, I am 


in the 


environmental seat . The environmental seat 


is intended 


for someone who comes from a nonprofit environmental 


organization dedicated to recycling air qua 


lity and water 


quality. As a representative of the Sierra 


Club for 22 


years, I think I meet the qualifications of 


the law. 


In addition, I do have degrees in 


oiology , 


psychology and environmental planning, all 


of which have 


come in handy in my term on the Board. 




I believe that I've been successfu 


1 in not only 


presenting the environmental perspective on 


the Board, but 


working closely with affected industries an 


d affected 


local governments in coming up with appropriate solutions 


to the problems we deal with on the Board. 




The Waste Board's jurisdiction, as 


you know, 



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includes things like landfill safety, local government, 
recycling programs, waste tires, waste oil, market 
development, loans to recycling businesses and so forth. 

And in recent months, as Linda Moulton-Patterson 
mentioned, environmental justice has emerged as a concern 
that we will be looking at and addressing. Among my 
personal priorities have been three things. 

One has been electronics waste, what to do with 
old computers and related equipment. And second has been 
State agency recycling and recycled product procurement 
efforts . 

And third has been public access to the actions 
and activities of the Board. I think I've been successful 
in all three areas in moving that forward. 

So Mr. Chairman and members, I'm honored by this 
opportunity to serve the State of California, and I ask 
for your support of my confirmation. 

Thank you . 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Senator Johnson. 

SENATOR JOHNSON: No questions. 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Senator Romero? 

SENATOR ROMERO: If I can just ask you again, 
too, regarding too what your philosophy is in terms of 
having cities or entities that are out of compliance. 
What is your philosophy in terms of fining or saying 



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you're making good progress, go ahead and go forward. Can 


you just delineate your philosophy on this. 


MR. PAPARIAN: I think we've got to do what we 


can with the tools we've got to assure compliance. And 


the law was very clear that we were to reach 25 percent by 


the year 1995 and 50 percent by the year 2000. Although, 


a couple of years ago a law was passed allowing for a 


delay of several years in the year 2000 requirement for 


localities making a good faith effort. 


The law basically says that if somebody is not 


meeting their recycling requirements, we work on a 


schedule to get them into compliance and work on actions 


to get them into compliance. We're not, under the law, 


authorized to fine at that point. We need to really work 


with them before we can get to a point where there would 


be fines. 


Now, there were four instances, before I came to 


the Board, where fines were levied on localities that 


basically were not doing much of anything. And thanks to 


those fines and other efforts, they are now coming into 


compliance. 


But in terms of the local government activities, 


you know, at this point, I want them to come into 


compliance. I think we need to do everything we can to 


move them into compliance. And I think that in the case 



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of local governments for this program, the fines are a 
last step. You know, hopefully we won't have to use them 
But if we have to use them because someone is really, you 
know, blatantly out of compliance, you know, I think we 
have that tool and we should use that tool . 

SENATOR ROMERO: Okay, Thank you. 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Senator Knight? 

SENATOR KNIGHT: No questions. 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Senator Karnette? 

SENATOR KARNETTE: No questions. 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Do you have any family to 
introduce? 

MR. PAPARIAN: Not here, thank you. 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Witnesses in support 
briefly? 

Witnesses in opposition briefly? 

Move the nomination. 

COMMITTEE SECRETARY WEBB: Senator Karnette? 

SENATOR KARNETTE: Yes. 

COMMITTEE SECRETARY WEBB: Karnette aye. 

Senator Knight? 

SENATOR KNIGHT: Aye. 

COMMITTEE SECRETARY WEBB: Knight aye. 

Senator Romero? 

SENATOR ROMERO: Aye. 

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COMMITTEE SECRETARY WEBB: Romero aye. 




Senator Johnson? 




SENATOR JOHNSON: Aye. 




COMMITTEE SECRETARY WEBB: Johnson aye. 




Senator Burton? 




CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Aye. 




COMMITTEE SECRETARY WEBB: Burton aye. 




CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Congratulations. 




(Applause . ) 




CHAIRPERSON BURTON: John J. Tennant State Fire 


Marshal . 






MR. TENNANT: Good afternoon. Mr. Chairman and 


Members 


of the Rules Committee, my name is John Tennant. 


I am currently serving as the California State Fire 


Marshal . 


I appreciate the opportunity to be here today 


with you 


to tell you a little about myself and to ask that 


you recommend my confirmation to the full Senate. 




The prepared statement submitted to the Committee 


last wee 


k outlines some of the goals that I will continue 


to pursue if I am confirmed to this post. 


- 


So I thought that I would use my time today to 


tell you 


a little about the qualities that I believe that 


I bring 


to this position. As you may be aware, I come to 


State service after 28 years from the Pasadena Fire 


Department, 23 of them as the Fire Officer. 



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For 16 of those years, I was honored to have one 


election and reelection as the President of the Pasadena 


Firefighters Association. 


Wile I am proud of the recognition of my peers, I 


am equally proud of the working relationships that I was 


able to forge within Pasadena City Government and fire 


management. Working cooperatively with all the 


stakeholders, I helped win approval of Pasadena's 


retroactive high-rise sprinkler ordinance. 


I also spent time as an intern, administrative 


aid to State Senator Cecile Green. I helped Senator Green 


develop landmark legislation giving local jurisdictions 


the option to institute more stringent building and safety 


requirements for specific local conditions. 


As a former Fire Captain, I believe I bring a 


real world sensitivity and sensibility to the post of 


State Fire Marshal. I have spent over 28 years in fire 


prevention and suppression, giving me a firsthand look at 


the impact that State regulations and standards can have 


on businesses and individuals. I have also seen the role 


that training and safety standards can have on the 


citizens and the lives of firefighters. 


The approach that I have taken over the years 


reflects the philosophy that I hope to bring to the Office 


of State Fire Marshal. It is a philosophy built on 



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21 


results through relationships, consensus 


over 


confrontation. I am proud to say that some of the 


supporters that I have are the same peop 


le who sat across 


the table from me in conflict resolution 


and negotiation. 


I belief that even my adversaries would agree 


that their dealings with me have been straightforward, 


professional and above board. 




In closing, I want to thank the 


Chairman and the 


Committee for the courtesy and interest 


that they have 


shown during the confirmation process. 


I would appreciate 


your support for my appointment and stand ready to answer 


questions that you may have about me, my 


priorities or the 


office of State Fire Marshal. 




Thank you . 




MR. TERRY: Mr. Chairman, Dan Terry, President of 


the California Professional Firefighters 


Briefly, I ' ve 


had the opportunity to work with John for the past 16 


years at the State level. I find him to 


be a thoughtful, 


intelligent person. I know that he is h 


ighly qualified to 


take on this role and protect the public 


safety and I ' d 


urge your aye vote. 




I would also like to introduce 


-- it's with great 


pleasure, that I get the opportunity to 


introduce our 


General President of the International Association of 


Firefighters who's here with us today, b< 


scause we ' re 



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having a ledge 


conference. I think many of you may see 


some of our fo 


Iks here, but or general president Harold 


Schaitbercer . 




MR. SCHAITBERCER: Thank you, Dan and thank you 


Mr. Chairman. 


I am here also representing the 245,000 men 


and women that 


make up the membership of our great 


international , 


the International Association of 


Firefighters , 


across the United States and Canada, as well 


as the more than 30,000 members that we represent here in 


California, to 


appear before this distinguished committee 


in support of 


John Tennant my colleague, my brother, my 


good friend and urge you to support his appointment to the 


position of Ca 


lifornia State Fire Marshal. 


If th 


e Chair would indulge me just for a second, 


I also want to 


acknowledge that when I first had an 


opportunity to 


come to our international from the field in 


1975 as its le 


gislative and political director, I had the 


opportunity to 


work with the distinguished Chairman of 


this Committee 


and I want to acknowledge on behalf of 


international 


the important work that he did from 1975 


through 1982 on a number of issues including taking 


leadership in 


prevailing wage programs, your service on 


the Government 


Ops Committee and the important work you 


did to improve 


the retirement, insurance and benefits for 


federal employ 


ees, including our federal members, and most 



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23 

importantly, the Public Safety Officers Benefit Program, 
which now provides $150,000 to the dependents of the 
survivors of firefighters and law enforcement officers who 
are killed in the line of duty, and which our brother 
really provided distinguished leadership. We thank you 
for all of that past work. 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Thank you. 

MR. SCHAITBERCER: We're here simply to say that 
John Tennant deserves this position, is an excellent 
choice for this position, because he is a man who has held 
for 28 years with distinction and honor, levels at the 
local, State and national levels in fire service 
leadership roles. 

I'm confident that you are and have become well 
aware of his solid background in labor management 
relations, as John just mentioned, his budget development 
and management and strategic planning experience. So if I 
may just -- I intend to, if I may, just devote my few 
moments to tell you about the John Tennant I've known for 
a quarter of a century as a friend and as a leader. 

He's a man whose drive, passion and skill led to 
his rapid rise from firefighter to a Fire Captain in a 
mere five years. That's quite an accomplishment in your 
industry. He's someone who's devoted his entire adult 
life to fire suppression and fire prevention, and he's 



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always viewed fire service as much more than a job. For 
John the fire service is an avocation. It's a way of 
life. 

But somehow John also found time and energy to 
serve for many years as the president of our local union 
in Pasadena, to lecture graduate students at USC on public 
personnel administration, to hold offices, vice-president, 
of the California Professional Firefighters, to sit on the 
CalOSHA Advisory Committee, and to chair the City of 
Pasadena's Retirement Board. 

Mr. Chairman, John Tennant ' s accomplishments are 
many. His organizational leadership skills are second to 
none. His work ethic is exemplary and his dedication and 
commitment to the fire service are unquestioned. He's a 
man of skill, strength, character and integrity, who I 
dare to say will prove to be one of the most credible and 
effective State Fire Marshals in California history. 

The IFF applauds Governor Davis for his wise 
choice of John. And I'm hopeful your committee will act 
swift and confirm his nomination. 

I thank you for the opportunity to address the 
Committee today and to voice our support for a truly 
dedicated and effective public official. 

Thank, Mr. Chairman. 

Thank you . 



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25 




SENATOR KNIGHT: I' 


m convinced we 


ought to move 


it. 














CHAIRPERSON BURTON: 


Did 


you have 


any family 


with 


you 


, John? 












MR. TENNANT: No, sir, I 


don' t . 








CHAIRPERSON BURTON: 


How 


about this, is there 


any 


opp 


osition? 












(Laughter . ) 












CHAIRPERSON BURTON: 


Ferguson, you're coming 


down 


to 


oppose? 












Why don't those of 


you who are in 


support out 




there just raise your hand, 


so we 


can see? 








Any questions, memb 


ers of 


I the Committee? 






Moved by Senator Kn 


ight . 










Call the roll. 












COMMITTEE SECRETARY 


WEBB: 


Senator Karnette? 






SENATOR KARNETTE : 


Aye . 










COMMITTEE SECRETARY 


WEBB: 


Karnette aye. 






Senator Knight? 












SENATOR KNIGHT: Ay 


s . 










COMMITTEE SECRETARY 


WEBB: 


Knight 


aye . 






Senator Romero? 












SENATOR ROMERO: Aye. 










COMMITTEE SECRETARY 


WEBB: 


Romero 


aye . 






Senator Johnson? 











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SENATOR JOHNSON: Aye. 

COMMITTEE SECRETARY WEBB: Johnson aye 

Senator Burton? 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Aye. 

COMMITTEE SECRETARY WEBB: Burton aye. 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Congratulations. 

(Applause . ) 



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CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER 

I, JAMES F. PETERS, a Certified Shorthand 
Reporter of the State of California, and Registered 
Professional Reporter, do hereby certify: 

That I am a disinterested person herein; that the 
foregoing Senate Rules Committee meeting was reported in 
shorthand by me, James F. Peters, a Certified Shorthand 
Reporter of the State of California, and thereafter 
transcribed into typewriting. 

I further certify that I am not of counsel or 
attorney for any of the parties to said meeting nor in any 
way interested in the outcome of said meeting. 

IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set my hand 
this 18th day of June, 2001. 




JAMES F. PETERS, CSR, RPR 
Certified Shorthand Reporter 
License No. 10063 



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429-R 
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PUBLIC LIBRARY 



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SENATE RULES COMMITTEE 
STATE OF CALIFORNIA 



HEARING 



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ROOM 3191 

SACRAMENTO, CALIFORNIA 



MONDAY, JUNE 4, 2 001 
1:45 P.M. 



REPORTED BY: 



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CERTIFIED SHORTHAND REPORTER 

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APPEARANCES 
MEMBERS PRESENT 

SENATOR JOHN BURTON, Chair 
SENATOR ROSS JOHNSON, Vice Chair 
SENATOR BETTY KARNETTE 
SENATOR WILLIAM KNIGHT 
SENATOR GLORIA ROMERO 

STAFF PRESENT 

GREG SCHMIDT, Executive Officer 

PAT WEBB, Committee Secretary 

NETTIE SABELHAUS, Consultant on Governor's Appointments 

SUSIE SWATT, Consultant to Senator Johnson 

TIM SHELLEY, Consultant to Senator Karnette 

CHRIS BURNS, Consultant to Senator Knight 

RYAN SHERMAN, Consultant to Senator Romero 

ALSO PRESENT 



DERRAL ADAMS, Warden 

California Substance Abuse and Treatment 

Facility State Prison at Corcoran 

DANIEL ALEJANDREZ, 

Santa Cruz Barrios Unidos 

JOHN ALVES, Chapter President 
CCSO 

MILTON ARMISTEAD, Esq. 



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APPEARANCES CONTINUED 

ALSO PRESENT 

MARC BAUTISTA, 

Civil Service Division CSEA 

GEORGE BROWN 

ROY A. CASTRO, Warden 

California Correctional Center, Susanville 

BRIAN ELY, 
Sutter Health 

JIM ERWIN, President 

San Bernardino County Safety Employees' Association 

CLANCY FARIA, 
PORAC 

CLAUDE E. FINN, Warden 

Deuel Vocational Institution, Tracy 

MARI GOODMAN, 
CSEA-SEIU Local 1000 

BRETT GRANLUND, Member 
Board of Prison Terms 

DEBRA HEUSEL, 
CCPOA 

ROBERT HOFFMAN 

ROY MABRY, President 

Association of Black Correctional Workers 

MARGIE PALERMO 

Citizen's Advisory Committee and Family Council 

BILL QUIROZ 

Teichert Construction 

MARY LOU SOLOMON 

Santa Cruz Barrios Unidos 

RICHARD TATUM 

California CORR Supervisors Organization 



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APPEARANCES CONTINUED 



ALSO PRESENT 



JOYCE THOMAS-VILLARONGA 
CSEA Civil Service Division 

TOM VANDER WAL, Chairman 
CAC 

JAMES E. VOGTS 

L.A. County Professional Peace Officer's Association 

KEITH WATTLEY, 
Prison Law Office 

ORLANDO A. YBARRA 
Lieutenant 



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INDEX 



PAGE 



Proceedings 1 

Governor's Appointees: 

DERRAL ADAMS, Warden 

California Substance Abuse and Treatment Facility 

State Prison at Corcoran 1 

Opening Statement by Mr. Adams 1 

Questions by Senator Romero 

What have been the precipitating factors for 

lock downs and what are you doing to 

decrease them? 1 

Over the years has there been a general 
increase in lock downs and what are you doing 
to decrease them? 2 

Witnesses in support: 

ROY MABRY, President 

Association of Black Correctional Workers 3 

MARI GOODMAN, 

CSEA-SEIU Local 1000 4 

Witnesses in opposition: 

ORLANDO YBARRA, Lieutenant 4 

Questions by Senator Knight 

Your charges are going through the normal 
process ? 10 

You can always file charges from a 

legal standpoint? 11 

Questions by Senator Karnette 

Is the union handling your case? 11 

Does everyone have to belong to the union? 12 



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INDEX CONTINUED 






Page 


Motion to Confirm 


13 


Committee Action 


14 


ROY A. CASTRO, Warden 

California Correctional Center, Susanville 




Opening statement by Mr. Castro 


14 


Questions by Senator Knight 




Do you have any relation in Cuba? 


16 


Witnesses in Support: 




MARC BAUTISTA, 

Civil Service Division CSEA 


16 


Questions by Senator Karnette 




What is your contingency plan for fire? 


18 


Witnesses in Support: 




RICHARD TATUM 

California CORR Supervisors Organization 


18 


Motion to Confirm 


19 


Committee Action 


19 


CLAUDE FINN, Warden 

Deuel Vocational Institution, Tracy 




Opening statement by Mr. Finn 


19 


Questions by Senator Romero 




Why are there more lawsuits regarding poor 
medical treatment and water quality? 


22 


Witnesses in Support: 




JOYCE THOMAS-VILLARONGA 
CSEA Civil Service Division 


24 



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Page 


MARGIE PALERMO 




Citizen's Advisory Committee and Family Council 


25 


ROBERT HOFFMAN 


26 


BRIAN ELY 




Sutter Health 


26 


DEBRA HEUSEL 




CCPOA 


26 


JOHN ALVES, Chapter President 




CCSO 


27 


TOM VANDER WAL, Chairman 




CAC 


27 


DANIEL ALEJANDREZ 




Santa Cruz Barrios Unidos 


28 


MARY LOU SOLOMON 




Santa Cruz Barrios Unidos 


28 


BILL QUIROZ 




Teichert Construction 


29 


MILTON ARMISTEAD, Esq. 


30 


Motion to Confirm 


31 


Committee Action 


32 


BRETT GRANLUND, Member 




Board of Prison Terms 




Opening Statement by Mr. Granlund 


33 


Questions by Senator Karnette 




What do you think about the decision 




review panel? 


33 


How will you resolve the backlog of cases? 


35 



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Page 



How do you see resolving the backlog 

ofcases? 35 

Who makes the clerical more efficient? 37 

Questions by Senator Romero 

Have you been trained on battered woman's 
issues ? 38 

Motion to Confirm 39 

Witnesses in Support: 

JAMES E. VOGTS, 

L.A. County Professional Peace Officer's 

Association 4 

CLANCY FARIA, 

PORAC 4 

JIM ERWIN, President 

San Bernardino County Safety Employees' 

Association 40 

KEITH WATTLEY 

Prison Law Office 40 

Committee Action 42 

Termination of Proceedings 43 

Reporter's Certificate 44 



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PROCEEDINGS 

SENATOR JOHNSON: Next, Governor's appointments. 
The first is Derral Adams, Warden, Corcoran facility. 
Please come forward sir. 

MR. ADAMS: That's actually the substance abuse 
treatment facility at Corcoran. 

My name is Derral Adams. I've got 22 years with 
the Department of Corrections. In that 22 years, I've 
held 12 different posts. I've worked at seven different 
institutions. I worked with every population that the 
Department of Corrections currently houses. I have worked 
on both the operational and business sides of things. I 
currently am the appointee at the Substance Abuse 
Treatment Facility at Corcoran. We house 6,400 inmates, 
1,500 of which are -- pardon me, 1,478 are involved in 
substance abuse programs. The other, that would be, 5,000 
or main line inmates in levels 2, 4, and 3. And I'm here 
to answer any questions you have. 

SENATOR JOHNSON: All right. Senator Knight? 

SENATOR KNIGHT: No questions. 

SENATOR JOHNSON: Senator Karnette? 

SENATOR KARNETTE: No questions. 

SENATOR JOHNSON: Senator Romero? 

SENATOR ROMERO: Just, if you can, maybe if you 
can just talk a little bit about lock downs in the 

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faci.1 , under what circumstances and what have been 
precipitating factors that have led to it and what are you 
doing to decrease those numbers? 

MR. ADAMS: Lock downs are generally the result 
of violence or information received that might precipitate 
violence. And we lock down to either curb the violence or 
tc take a look at the issues that may be leading to that, 
try and sort out who may or may not be involved, and then 
as rapidly as possible take the uninvolved inmate 
population and bring them back up off the lock downs, 
while you work with the involved population to see if you 
can help them sort out their differences. 

SENATOR ROMERO: And just, if you could follow 
up, have you seen increases or decreases or how would 
you -- I mean, what are some of your proposals to — over 
the years, have there been a general increase in lock 
downs and what are your proposals to decrease that? 

MR. ADAMS: Well, over the years there's been an 
increase in violence, so that results in an increase in 
lock downs . And the Department currently has a pilot 
program for violence control. My institution, 
unfortunately, is not a part of that pilot, but it's based 
on a system of providing incentives and disincentives that 
are behavioral based. 

We provide as much programming as we can to those 



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inmates that involve themselves in programming and stay 
out of that type of behavior. So we are active in that 
sense, although we're not part of that pilot. 

SENATOR ROMERO: Thank you. 

SENATOR JOHNSON: Any further questions? 

SENATOR KNIGHT: Move it. 

SENATOR JOHNSON: Witnesses in support of the 
nominee come forward and submissions will be judged on the 
basis of originality and briefness. 

( Laughter . ) 

MR. MABRY : Thank you, Chairman. My name is Roy 
Mabry. I'm the State President for the Association of 
Black Correctional Workers . 

Senator, I like your new haircut. 

Also, I'm here to show some complete support for 
confirmation for the Warden for State Prison. Also, to 
continue to not delay any time, I'd like to state the same 
support for the next three people that are coming up on 
the agenda . 

That's A through D. 

( Laughter . ) 

SENATOR JOHNSON: I think we have a winner. 

(Laughter . ) 

MR. MABRY: That's A through D on the agenda. 

Warden, good luck. 

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SENATOR JOHNSON: Next witness, please. 

MS. GOODMAN: Thank you. My name is Mari 
)dman. I work over at the C -- I don't even know where 
work, CCI in Tehachapi. I'm a house record tech, and I 
also serve on the Committee at CSEA Union for the 
correctional institution. And we kind of address some of 
those very unique issues only in correctional and we are 
here in support of Mr. Adams' confirmation. 

We understand that he has addressed a lot of the 
issues rapidly. He is right on top of all those 
grievances, addressing them and those that have been not 
in favor of the grievance. He has agreed to disagree 
without retaliation and has assisted those people, so 
we're very much in favor of his confirmation, and it's the 
only one I'm going to speak on today. 

MR. ADAMS: Thank you. 

SENATOR JOHNSON: Thank you very much. That's 
in your favor as well. 

Witnesses in opposition? 

Witnesses in opposition? 

All right. There's been a motion by Senator 
Knight. Secretary call the roll. 

COMMITTEE SECRETARY WEBB: I think there's 
opposition . 

MR. YBARRA: Good afternoon, senators. My name 

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is Orlando Ybarra. I'm a Lieutenant for the California 
Department of Corrections at the California Substance 
Abuse Treatment Facility at State Prison. I've been at 
SATF since its activation and have witnessed, firsthand, 
the failed administration of Mr. J.W. Fairman. 

Now, senators, I am witnessing the unfair illegal 
hiring practice, the disparate treatment and the racial 
discrimination of Mr. Derral Adams. 

I am here today, senators, to oppose confirmation 
of Mr. Derral Adams. On February 13th, 2001, each of the 
distinguished senators here today received a certified 
mail packet from me. This packet contains signed dated 
documentation, which was generated from the institution. 

I compiled this information to prove the 
disparate treatment, the illegal hiring and the 
discrimination that is occurring at SATF. Not only does 
Mr. Adams know about the aforementioned, he condones it as 
well as participates in it himself. 

I attempted to handle the situation at the lowest 
possible level. On January 16th, 2001 I spoke with Mr. 
Adams. Present at the meeting was Sergeant R. Dubsky, my 
California Correctional Supervisors Organization 
Representative and Mr. Sanchez, Acting Chief Deputy Warden 
and EEO Coordinator at SATF. 

I brought the issues to Mr. Adams' attention, but 



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when his response was, "Lieutenant, I will hire who I 
want, promote who I want, and place them where I want, 
after all, I am the Warden am I not, Lieutenant?" 

This, above- the- law attitude, compelled me to 
file a discrimination complaint against Mr. Adams. On 
January 18th, 2001 in front of my CCO representative, Mr. 
Adams attempted to fix the problem, by offering me a 
special assignments job at central region headquarters, 
working for Mr. George Galaza, Regional Administrator of 
the central region at that time. 

I declined his offer, senators, because in my 
eyes he was attempting to buy my silence. Since I filed 
my discrimination complaint, Mr. Adams has attempted 
damage control, attempting to explain to staff on why he 
has done what he has done, by not having an open-door 
policy, limited CC1 interviews to selected few, hiring and 
promote from outside the institution and not giving those 
that have been at SATF, from the beginning, the 
opportunity to even interview for a position. 

It is no secret, senators, that Mr. Adams does 
have concerns about being confirmed. The question to ask 
oneself is have the recent changes occurred because Mr. 
Adams has finally become aware of the disparate treatment 
or did he make these changes to get confirmed. 

Mr. Adams is claiming that he is hiring more 

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Hispanic custody staff. I have not asked for that. I am 
only requesting that the most qualified person be hired no 
matter what his or her nationality might be. On January 
31st, 2001 the Department of Corrections Equal Employment 
Opportunity Office acknowledged receipt of my complaint. 

On March 8th, 2001 I received confirmation that 
my complaint was accepted and was being referred to the 
discrimination investigations unit. On May 29th, 2001, 
the Office of Internal Af fairs / Discrimination 
Investigations Unit interviewed me and are now conducting 
an active investigation into my complaints. 

On March 21st, 2001, I was called to a meeting 
with Mr. Hurdle who is an ombudsman. Present at this 
meeting was Mr. Adams, Sergeant Dubsky, my CCO 
representative and Ms. Susan Morrero, State President of 
CCWA. 

It is amazing how the ombudsman was able to 
determine that I had not been discriminated against on 
just by the Warden's statements. 

No documentation was allowed to be presented, no 
witnesses were called or questioned, yet this did not 
prevent Mr. Hurdle from writing to Ms. Nettie Sabelhaus on 
March 23rd, 2001 and informing her that I had not been 
discriminated against, and that the appearance of 
nepotism, favoritism appears to be the most difficult 



L 



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issue to resolve. 

On March 30th, 2001 Mr. Adams responded to Mr. 
Ken Hurdle about my concerns via memorandum. Expressed 
issues of concern that were answered were, the 
Correctional Counselor I hires, the Correctional Counselor 
hires, first watch lieutenant's rotation, the Sergeants 
hires, the staff transfers, administrative hires, vacant 
lieutenant's positions, advertisement of positions and 
individual concerns. 

Mr. Adams responded to this issue with 
embellished answers, all of which can be proven to be 
false. I have submitted the necessary documentation to 
the OIADIU agent in charge of the investigation. I only 
hope that Mr. Adams is held to the same standard that all 
peace officers are during an investigation. 

In fact, I believe that Mr. Adams should be held 
to a higher standard. My purpose here today, senators, is 
to hold the Department of Corrections, especially Mr. 
Adams, accountable for his actions as well as the actions 
of his close circle of friends that he calls a team, as 
per his January memo. 

This memo was circulated to all staff. It was 
circulated two days after I had my first meeting with Mr. 
Adams. In this memo, Mr. Adams justified why he is hiring 
others from outside SATF and those that did not like it 



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can leave . 

But he neglects to state why he is circumventing 
the policy and procedures set forth -- 

SENATOR JOHNSON: Sir, excuse me for 
interrupting, are you about completed with your statement. 

MR. YBARRA: Yes, sir, I am. 

SENATOR JOHNSON: If you could wind it up, 
please . 

MR. YBARRA: Set forth by departmental 
operational manual. It is human nature for pride to fill 
us with self worth especially when a Warden calls you and 
promises you a certain position at his institution, and 
then tells you that you will prosper at SATF. A pridefull 
person doesn't have to worry that someone else will tell 
on them. They tell on themselves. 

It is no secret that Mr. Adams is actively 
recruiting from Wasco State Prison and Valley State Prison 
for Women. senators, I, for one, am tired of being denied 
a position because of the color of my skin or because I 
did not have the same political or social affiliations of 
Mr . Adams ' team . 

Many supervisors and officers wanted to be here 
today, but they feared the retaliation that occurs when 
one speaks up. I, for one, senators, have 14 years in and 
have 19 years left to do behind the prison walls. I do 

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not plan to promote anytime soon, for I love my job as the 
Institutional Gang Investigator at SATF. 

All that I'm asking of you, senators, is that you 
help me hold the Department of Corrections and Mr. Adams. 
Let us not forget our history, I see no difference between 
the last failed administration and this one. That is why 
I'm asking you, senators, to hold your vote awaiting the 
outcome of the pending investigation from OIA and DIU. 

Thank you . 

SENATOR JOHNSON: Senator Knight, you have a 
question . 

SENATOR KNIGHT: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. You 
have indicated, to the witness, and I didn't get your 
name . 

MR. YBARRA: Lieutenant Ybarra. Orlando Ybarra. 

SENATOR KNIGHT: Ybarra. You have indicated a 
number of charges and also indicated that most of those 
are going through the process, is that right? 

MR. YBARRA: Yes, sir. I spoke to the OIA DIU 
agent , sir . 

SENATOR KNIGHT: So they are going through the 
normal press and a legal process established for those 
kinds of situations? 

MR. YBARRA: Yes, sir. 

SENATOR KNIGHT: And if they don't come out 

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correctly, and you still have an objection or legal 
information, then you can always file charges from a legal 
standpoint, right? 

MR. YBARRA: I believe so, sir. 

SENATOR KNIGHT: So everything is moving along on 
schedule ? 

MR. YBARRA: Yes, sir. 

SENATOR KNIGHT: Is that right? 

MR. YBARRA: Yes. 

SENATOR KNIGHT: Thank you. 

SENATOR JOHNSON: Any other guestions? 

Senator Karnette . 

SENATOR KARNETTE: I would like to note your 
union is handling this, so you did have representation, 
but what has the Union said? 

MR. YBARRA: The Union is not handling it, ma'am. 
I filed a personal EEO complaint. 

SENATOR KARNETTE: But you went through your 
union -- you didn't go through the Union? 

MR. YBARRA: No, ma'am. I felt they were not -- 
they wouldn't represent me adequately, ma'am. 

MR. ADAMS: If I can, the Union represents a 
Lieutenant, has authored a letter in my support. 

SENATOR KARNETTE: Well, do you have agency fee? 

MR. YBARRA: Pardon me, ma'am? 



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12 

SENATOR KARNETTE : Do you have agency fee? Does 
everybody have to belong to the union or pay dues? 

MR. YBARRA: No, ma'am, not supervisors. 

SENATOR KARNETTE: Supervisors. Okay who 
defends you -- then you don't pay dues? 

MR. YBARRA: CCSO would defend me, ma'am. 

SENATOR KARNETTE: Okay. But you do not pay dues 
to a union? 

MR. YBARRA: Yes, ma'am, I do. 

SENATOR KARNETTE: Well, then I think they have 
to defend you, don't they? 

MR. YBARRA: Yes, ma'am, they would if I was put 
in a situation where legal action is pending. 

SENATOR KARNETTE: So actually the Union 
hasn't -- you haven't asked them to do anything and they 
haven't done anything, because you haven't asked them, but 
you are a member. 

MR. YBARRA: Well, I tried to get ahold of the 
Union President, but I haven't been able to get his call 
back from the State President, but -- 

SENATOR KARNETTE: Well, don't you have a 
representative -- 

MR. YBARRA: Yes, ma'am. And I did have him 
there present, just as witness and he did sign the 
meeting -- everything that was said at the meeting to be 

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true on one of the pages there in the packet. 

SENATOR KARNETTE: Maybe, the Warden can 
elucidate that. What happens with when the union in this 
case . 

MR. ADAMS: The Union would represent the 
employee if the employee was engaged in a conflict with 
the Department. If retaliation had become an issue, the 
Union could support and represent the employee. 

In this particular case, because the Union chose 
not to support this lieutenant in his quest, he's taken 
that outside of the union, has filed within the Department 
separately . 

MR. YBARRA: I did not go to the Union. I went 
outside the Department, first? 

SENATOR KARNETTE: You have the right, I 
understand that. 

SENATOR JOHNSON: All right, there is no further 
questions . 

Mr. Adams, have you any family members here you'd 
care to introduce? 

MR. ADAMS: Yes, I'd like to introduce my wife 
Laura Hernandez. 

SENATOR JOHNSON: Is there a motion? 

SENATOR KNIGHT: Motion still stands. 

SENATOR JOHNSON: All right. Senator Knight's 



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motion still stands. 

Secretary, call the role. 

COMMITTEE SECRETARY WEBB: Senator Karnette? 

SENATOR KARNETTE: Aye. 

COMMITTEE SECRETARY WEBB: Karnette aye. 

Senator Knight? 

SENATOR KNIGHT: Aye. 

COMMITTEE SECRETARY WEBB: Knight aye. 

Senator Romero? 

SENATOR ROMERO: Aye. 

COMMITTEE SECRETARY WEBB: Romero aye. 

Senator Johnson? 

SENATOR JOHNSON: Aye. 

COMMITTEE SECRETARY WEBB: Johnson aye. 

SENATOR JOHNSON: Congratulations, sir. 

MR. ADAMS: Thank you. 

(Applause . ) 

SENATOR JOHNSON: Let's have next Roy A. Castro, 
Warden, California Correctional Center Susanville. 

Welcome , sir . 

MR. CASTRO: Good afternoon, senators. My name 
is Roy Castro. I began my career in 1971 as a 
Correctional Officer at Deuel Vocational Institution in 
Tracy. I promoted through the ranks, while transferring 
to six different institutions and assisting in the 

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activation of three new facilities. 

I worked all custody levels at mens institutions, 
and medium and maximum securities at the Central 
California Womens ' Facility in Chowchilla. 

In 1998 -- 

SENATOR JOHNSON: Go right ahead, sir. 

MR. CASTRO: In 1998, I was appointed Warden of 
High Desert State Prison. That's a level 3 and 4 
institution. During that period of time, High Desert 
State Prison had been experiencing a lack of morale, and a 
lack of unity among supervisors. 

Under my leadership, morale increased, meaningful 
programs were developed for the inmates and staff, 
security measures were improved, and I believe that High 
Desert State Prison became a highly proficient 
institution . 

In — excuse me, I just drew a blank. 

SENATOR JOHNSON: Derailed your train of 
thought, did we? 

(Laughter . ) 

SENATOR KARNETTE: It happens to us, too. 

SENATOR JOHNSON: All right. Well, maybe we can 
go to questions. Any questions from members of the 
Committee? 

Senator Knight. 

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SENATOR KNIGHT: No, just a basic question. I'm 
sure you get this question all the time. Do you have any 
relation in Cuba? 

( Laughter . ) 

MR. CASTRO: Any relations where, Senator? 

SENATOR KNIGHT: In Cuba. 

MR. CASTRO: No, I don't. 

SENATOR ROMERO: But I might. 

( Laughter . ) 

SENATOR JOHNSON: All right, maybe that's a good 
time to ask Senator Romero if she has any questions. 

(Laughter . ) 

SENATOR ROMERO: I don't have any questions. 

CHAIRPERSON KEESE: Senator Karnette . 

SENATOR KARNETTE: No questions. 

SENATOR JOHNSON: Witnesses in support of the 
nominee . 

Welcome , sir . 

MR. BAUTISTA: Good afternoon. My name is Marc 
Bautista. I'm one of the four statewide officers for the 
Civil Service Division, that represents a vast majority of 
the workers at the institution who are not correctional 
officers . 

I've had the opportunity to work with Roy Castro 
since the California Womens ' Facility and I've also talked 

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17 

to some of our members and activists there at the 
institution and we find Roy Castro someone who you can 
approach. You can agree to disagree and have always found 
him to be very supportive and an open person to hear the 
concerns . 

I know I had an opportunity to visit with him 
last week, and he shared with me that it is very important 
that, you know, you hear things, whether you like the news 
or not, but it's important to understand what's going on 
in the institution that you hear what's going on, so he 
always promoted an open-door policy and we're here in 
support of his confirmation. 

SENATOR JOHNSON: For the staff, I presume. 

MR. BAUTISTA: For the staff. 

SENATOR JOHNSON: That open door policy would be 
somewhat of a -- 

(Laughter . ) 

SENATOR JOHNSON: Warden, do you have any family 
members you'd care to introduce? 

MR. CASTRO: Yes, I have my wife of 26 years 
here . Debbie . 

SENATOR JOHNSON: And welcome. 

MR. CASTRO: Numerous CDC family is here. 

SENATOR JOHNSON: All right. 

Any opposition to this? 

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SENATOR KARNETTE: I had one question I wanted 
ask, sir, if I might. I was wondering what your 
ontingency plan for fire is. I know there was a fire? 
There. And what happens in a prison when there's a fire. 

SENATOR KNIGHT: It's tough. 

MR. CASTRO: Right now, I have several hundred 
inmate fire crew members that are at my disposal at the 
prison itself. Our grounds are pretty much kept baron 
where we don't have shrubbery. And there's very little 
possibility of ever having to evacuate our prison due to 
fire. So I can probably put a ring of inmates around my 
prison if I had to fight fire. 

SENATOR JOHNSON: Any opposition? 

Going once . 

SENATOR JOHNSON: Sir. 

MR. TATUM: I'm in support. 

SENATOR JOHNSON: Please come forward. 

MR. TATUM: Good afternoon, I'm Richard Tatum. 
I'm the State President of the California Correctional 
Supervisors Organization, which represents about 2,000 
correctional supervisors. One of the things I'd like to 
say to Mr. Castro, I've known him since 1973 when he 
worked for me as a correctional officer at Deuel 
Vocational Institution. 

Roy is the type of Warden that we want. Talk 

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about open-door policies, good sound decisions, this is 
him. So our organization wholeheartedly supports him. 

SENATOR JOHNSON: Thank you very much, sir. 

Is there a motion? 

SENATOR KNIGHT: Move. 

COMMITTEE SECRETARY WEBB: Senator Knight moved 

SENATOR JOHNSON: Senator Knight has moved 
Secretary call the roll. 

COMMITTEE SECRETARY WEBB: Senator Karnette? 

SENATOR KARNETTE: Aye. 

COMMITTEE SECRETARY WEBB: Karnette aye. 

Senator Knight? 

SENATOR KNIGHT: Aye. 

COMMITTEE SECRETARY WEBB: Knight aye. 

Senator Romero? 

SENATOR ROMERO: Aye. 

COMMITTEE SECRETARY WEBB: Romero aye. 

Senator Johnson? 

SENATOR JOHNSON: Aye. 

COMMITTEE SECRETARY WEBB: Johnson aye. 

SENATOR JOHNSON: Congratulations, Warden. 

(Applause . ) 

SENATOR JOHNSON: Next Claude Finn, Warden of 
the Deuel Vocational Institution in Tracy. Welcome, sir, 

MR. FINN: Thank you, Senator. Good afternoon. 



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Thank very much for this opportunity. Again, my name is 
Tlaude Finn, and I'm very honored to say that I've been 
with the Deuel Vocational Institution for four and a half 
years. And I'm very, very honored to know that I've 
worked with the most professional and most personable 
folks I've ever worked with in my entire 28 years of 
providing service both to the State level and local level. 

I bring a wide variety of various high-level 
administrative experiences to the State Department of 
Corrections, although, I wasn't born and raised in the 
Department and did not come up through the ranks. The 
Department has gotten so large that there's a lot of room 
for both inside and outside, and I tend to bring both. 
I've got 15 years with the State Department of 
Corrections, I'm proud to say, coming in at a high level 
at a CEA II level over at the Office of Community 
Resources . 

The truth, and to be frank, is the very first 
prison I've worked in has been Deuel Vocational 
Institution four and a half years ago. It's been quite 
the experience. What I bring with me to the job of Warden 
is not just that experience, but my entire life experience 
and an attitude and an enthusiasm of being inclusionary as 
opposed to exclusionary. 

I really go out of my way to get input from a 

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wide variety of different resources and from different 
people. Issues facing corrections have gotten so complex 
that I think I'm wisest to do that. I've gotten a lot of 
accolades these past four and a half years for my 
leadership style. I know how to hold people accountable. 
At the same time, I've got compassion and firmly believe 
in training and retraining. 

I feel very equipped to do this. I've been 
acting Warden since about October of 1999. I've been fire 
tested. I've been successful, and I'm very much ready to 
continue being in the position of Warden at DVI . 

SENATOR JOHNSON: Senator Knight, do you have 
any questions? 

SENATOR KNIGHT: No questions. 

CHAIRPERSON KEESE: Senator Karnette? 

SENATOR KARNETTE: No questions, but Dion Aroner 
and Tim Leslie and Patrick Johnston all like you very 
well . 

MR. FINN: I feel blessed. I like them, too. 

(Laughter . ) 

SENATOR JOHNSON: Can't hurt. 

Senator Romero. 

SENATOR ROMERO: Just a question here. Of 
course every institution has lawsuits that are filed 
against it. In looking at the numbers and the type of 

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litigation that's pending against the institution, I 
notice that there are lawsuits pertaining to water quality 
and poor medical treatment that are disproportionately -- 
you know much more so than the other. Can you give me 
some understanding as to what's going on in these 
particular types of lawsuits and what are you doing to try 
to bring those types of suits down? 

MR. FINN: It will be my pleasure, Senator. 
Thank you. Regarding the water, at Deuel Vocational 
Institution what we have is a prison that was built in a 
flood zone back in '49, '50 and '51. And it's like a 
bowl. And it's right in the middle of agricultural land. 
And with the buildings of Tracy going on, which is now the 
bedroom community of the Bay Area and the removal of a lot 
of the farm land being substituted with asphalt, that 
runoff comes right to this bowl. 

Eut specifically, we test our water every day, 
and we test our water once a week, and we send results out 
to a private contractor to take a look at our lab results. 
And once a month, we send our reports to health care 
services and we've been doing that for years because of 
where the prison was sited. 

The water absolutely, positively passes every 
test for being healthy and suitable to drink. It does not 
pass the test for smell, does not pass the test for how it 



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looks, does not pass the test for its taste. And that is 
an issue throughout the San Joaquin valley, not just Deuel 
Vocational Institution. What we're doing about it, like 
many communities, not just in California but throughout 
the world, is we're attempting to find other water 
sources. We're attempting to buy water from Tracy to buy 
water from Stockton. And we're in line with many other 
people because of the building boom. 

But we are very concerned about our water. The 
lawsuits that you mentioned, there are various stages of 
those lawsuits, where the inmates themselves who don't 
like the taste of the water have filed their own suits 
regarding that. We are very concerned about our water and 
we've not yet quote unquote "flunked" an unhealthiness 
test with the water. 

SENATOR ROMERO: And what about the medical 
treatment ? 

MR. FINN: Wide variety of various lawsuits 
regarding medical treatment. The majority of which really 
are in the area of an overall departmental kind of 
concerns about access to mental health, much more so than 
specific to Deuel Vocational institution. There's been a 
complete evolution of medical care inside of the State 
Department of Corrections for the last ten years or so. 

And access for care, issues such as individuals 



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on the street and their access to care versus those 
incarcerated is something that continues to be evolved. 

Examples specific might be an inmate that 
believes that he should have received treatment for an 
infliction that he had before he came to prison that is 
not life threatening and is not getting the care quick 
enough or not getting the drugs that he would like, that 
would spur a lawsuit and there are other examples like 
that . 

SENATOR ROMERO: Okay. 

MR. FINN: Basically access to care, Senator. 

SENATOR ROMERO: Thank you. 

SENATOR JOHNSON: All right, witnesses in 
support, please. 

Same admonition as the earlier witnesses. 

Brevity is the soul of wit here. 

MS. THOMAS-VILLARONGA: My name is Joyce 
Thomas-Villaronga . I'm with CSEA Civil Service Division. 
I'm also a member of the Correctional Institutions 
Committee, going around checking out the Wardens to make 
sure they're doing what we need them to do. 

And we met with Warden Finn, actually I was real 
impressed because he was out with the rank and file 
non-custody every day lowest paid in the institution out 
in the -- they have like a little break area outside that 

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he was sitting out there with them, which was real 
impres s ive . 

We did have some issues, most of them pertaining 
to the reception center, because I worked in the reception 
senator. Those are not anything -- he kind of inherits 
that arena, because it's the reception center. It's very 
difficult and you have unique issues, but he was very 
personable . 

He did respond back to our issues in writing, 
which is the first time we've ever received that from a 
Warden. Took the issue to heart, responded back with his 
support as to what he was willing to do, and so we can 
hold him to those areas, so we're very much in support of 
him . 

SENATOR JOHNSON: Thank you very much. 

MS. PALERMO: Good afternoon. My name is Margie 
Palermo, and it is an honor to be here today to speak on 
behalf of Warden Finn. I have a son incarcerated at DVI 
and he has served 13 years on a 15 to life sentence. I am 
a member of the Citizens Advisory Committee and a member 
of the Family Council, which is a joint effort of 
concerned citizened inmate families and supported by 
Senator Polanco and Senator Vasconcellos . 

As a member of Family Council, it has been 
brought to my attention how highly regarded Warden Finn is 

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26 

by DVI inmates and families. Since my association with 
Warden Finn, I've developed trust and respect for a truly 
caring human being. 

In his capable hands DVI staff, inmates and their 
families and CDC will prosper under his leadership. 

Thank you . 

SENATOR JOHNSON: Thank you, ma'am. 

Sir . 

MR. HOFFMAN: Good afternoon, senators. Robert 
Hoffman attorney at law. I've known Claude Finn for over 
20 years. I can recommend him as someone with the highest 
qualities, and we're lucky to have him. 

Thank you very much. 

SENATOR JOHNSON: Thank you, sir. 

MR. ELY: Brian Ely. I'm Chief Medical Officer 
for Sutter Connect, personal friend of Claude for 17 years 
also. And I know him to be a man of integrity and courage 
and creativity and compassion and I'm here to give him my 
personal support. 

SENATOR JOHNSON: Thank you, sir. 

Ma ' am . 

MS. HEUSEL: My name is Debra Heusel. I am the 
CCPOA chapter President at Deuel Vocational Institution. 
And I've been there for 15 and a half years. And when you 
find a manager that views his staff as an asset, someone 

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27 

that communicates with his staff on a regular basis and 
believes we can work together to get the job done within 
the guidelines set forth for us to follow, you have an 
effective Warden. 

Claude Finn is that man. 

SENATOR JOHNSON: Thank you very much. 

MR. ALVES : Good afternoon, senators. I'm John 
B. Alves. I'm employed at Deuel Vocational Institution as 
a Correctional Lieutenant. I've been in the system nearly 
30 years, 26 of those years have been at Deuel Vocational 
Institution. I'm currently the CCSO President, Chapter 
President, of Deuel Vocational Institution. 

I represent a majority of the supervisors there. 
I'm here in support of Mr. Finn today, and I hope for him 
to be the Warden officially when he walks out today. 

He brings a different dynamic to DVI . I've been 
through all but two Wardens at Deuel Vocational 
Institution, and he's good, if not better than any of them 
that have been there. 

And he has a mutual respect with all supervisors. 
We don't always agree with him, but we agree that he's a 
respectful person and we enjoy Mr. Finn. 

Thank you . 

SENATOR JOHNSON: Thank you, sir. 

MR. VANDER WAL : Tom Vander Wal . I'm the 

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28 

Chairman of the Citizens Advisory Committee. I've been 
affiliated with the institution since about 1984. This is 
my 6th Warden I've worked with. Claude has a lot of 
compassion. He has a very much open-door policy. If 
there's concern or whatever, you can always contact him. 
He returns your telephone calls. And he has been a real 
asset to our committee and I feel a real asset to the 
institution . 

If there is a problem, he finds a way to resolve 
it and he's every open and tells us what's going on and 
what's happening at all times. 

SENATOR JOHNSON: Thank you, sir. 

Other witnesses in support briefly. 

MR. ALEJANDREZ: My name is Daniel Alejandrez. 
I'm the Director of Santa Cruz Barrios Unidos . 

MS. SOLOMON: My name is Mary Lou Solomon, and 
I'm the Programs Director of Santa Cruz Barrios Unidos. 

MR. ALEJANDREZ: We're a violence prevention 
organization. It's a national organization. And one of 
the things that we do is try to keep our young people out 
of prisons . But also to try to work with them while 
they're in prison. 

And we're here in support of Mr. Finn because he 
feels very strong in terms of what's going on in the 
Department of Corrections, but to be able to go in there 



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29 

and to support the inmates so that they can have an 
opportunity when they get out. And we've been given that 
opportunity to -- we've been there seven years now, and 
we're much in support of Mr. Finn, because we're doing 
some good stuff. 

And if you look at the inmate population that 
we've been working with, there's not a discipline problem 
and they're supporting our program. 

SENATOR JOHNSON: Thank you, sir. 

MS. SOLOMON: I'm in support of Mr. Finn. Mr. 
Finn has been very generous to us, allowing us time in the 
facility working with the staff and mostly the inmates, 
and I want to say that I give him my full support. It's 
very difficult to be here. 

MR. FINN: Tell me about it. 

SENATOR JOHNSON: Thank you very much. 

Final witnesses in support please. 

MR. QUIROZ : Excuse me. I'm in private industry, 
so bear with me a little bit. I may not always be 
appropriate here, but my name is Bill Quiroz. I'm vice 
president of A. Teichert and Son. And we're the ones that 
paved that stuff that may be causing the water problems. 
I don't know, but we've been around for awhile. 

Also, just a little bit of an infomercial here, 
we're also the contractor who paved the original concrete 

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30 

around the State Capitol, so anyway just a little plug in 
there . 

( Laughter . ) 

MR. QUIROZ: But anyway one of the things that I 
think folks probably notice that I never met a man with a 
strong presence. And you can probably tell in his 
speaking the level of confidence this man speaks. And 
I've been around a lot of leaders in my time, and he's one 
I can consider not only a strong fan, but a mentor of 
mine. I seek for advice with him. 

And particularly, you know, there's times where 
you know -- I never -- I've always admired his wisdom, so 
anyway to cut this pretty short, Senator Johnson, he has 
my endorsement and hopefully you folks will confirm this 
man . 

SENATOR JOHNSON: Thank you, sir. 

MR. ARMISTEAD: My name is Milton Armistead. I'm 
an attorney in private practice in Sacramento and I've 
been that for 24 years. It's with great honor and a 
privilege that I sit here and speak for Claude Finn. He's 
a man of high integrity and exemplary abilities as you 
well know . 

Thank you . 

SENATOR JOHNSON: Thank you, sir. 

MR. BROWN: My name is George Brown. I met 

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Claude Finn in May of 1972. And I am the one that brought 
him into State service. We were conducting an interview 
in Los Angeles. I was working at the State Personnel 
Board at the time. He was so impressive during that 
interview, we hired him before he left the interview. I'm 
pleased to see that his progress has been exemplary, 
consistent with that opinion that I had 29 years ago. 

I support him 100 percent. 

SENATOR JOHNSON: It's always nice to have one's 
opinions validated. 

(Laughter . ) 

SENATOR JOHNSON: At least I'm told that that's 
the case . 

( Laughter . ) 

SENATOR JOHNSON: Witnesses in opposition please? 

Going once . 

All right. 

SENATOR KARNETTE: Move it. 

SENATOR KNIGHT: Mr. Chairman, I was just going 
to say I'm convinced through the testimony and the 
conversation with Mr. Finn that we'd better confirm him 
quickly . 

(Laughter . ) 

MR. FINN: Thank you, Senator. 

SENATOR JOHNSON: Warden, have you any family 



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members here that you'd care to introduce? 

MR. FINN: Deuel Vocational Institution is a 
family of mine. They're all listening. Hello, DVI . 
Thank you for your support, and everyone here in support 
of me thank you . 

(Laughter . ) 

SENATOR JOHNSON: All right, do we have a motion? 

SENATOR KARNETTE: Move. 

SENATOR JOHNSON: Senator Karnette moves. 
Secretary, call the roll. 

COMMITTEE SECRETARY WEBB: Senator Karnette? 

SENATOR KARNETTE: Aye. 

COMMITTEE SECRETARY WEBB: Karnette aye. 

Senator Knight? 

SENATOR KNIGHT: Aye. 

COMMITTEE SECRETARY WEBB: Knight aye. 

Senator Romero? 

SENATOR ROMERO: Aye. 

COMMITTEE SECRETARY WEBB: Romero aye. 

Senator Johnson? 

SENATOR JOHNSON: Aye. 

COMMITTEE SECRETARY WEBB: Johnson aye. 

SENATOR JOHNSON: Warden, congratulations. 

MR. FINN: Thank you, senators. 
(Laughter . ) 

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SENATOR JOHNSON: All right. We have a lot of 
meeting ahead of us, so I'd appreciate it if people who 
are exiting the room could do so quietly. 

All right, Brett Granlund as a member of the 
Board of Prison Terms. 

MR. GRANLUND: Questions? 
( Laughter . ) 

MR. GRANLUND: I'm Brett Grandlund. I'm here 
before you today to seek confirmation as a member of the 
Board of Prison Terms. I appreciate the opportunity to be 
here. I've had a chance to meet with most of you over the 
past week and discuss some of the issues facing the Board. 

As I'm sure you're all aware, I served in the 
legislature from 1994 till 2000 when I was termed out. 
And prior to that, I was in business for myself and still 
maintain an interest in my private business in the 
electric sign and outdoor advertising industry. 

And the Governor appointed me in February to this 
Board. And I'm here today looking for your confirmation 
and your favorable consideration, and answer any questions 
you may have . 

SENATOR JOHNSON: Senator Knight. 

SENATOR KNIGHT: Yes, thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Granlund, what do you feel about the decision 
review process, do you think it needs to be modified? Is 

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it doing its job or not? 

MR. GRANLUND: I've spent the last, really, the 
last month or so trying to understand exactly how it 
works. And I think there are cases that some believe that 
a review is requested by decision review, simply because 
there was a disagreement in the opinion of staff with the 
decision made by the panel in the field. 

And none of mine have been there yet, so I 
haven't been involved in any of those yet. However, if 
that were the case, I would tell you I would be opposed to 
that. On the other hand, I've been assured by staff, and 
we've talked quite a bit in the last couple of days about 
how that works and how it will go through the process. 

And I've been assured, and I would assure you 
that I will be keeping an eye out. But I've been assured 
by staff that no decision will be sent back and asked the 
Board to give a rehearing without first having a 
discussion with the Commissioners that were in the field 
and let them know of the discrepancy or any new 
information or any information that may have been left out 
or they felt was left out at the hearing, and if that 
would have potentially made a difference or if it would 
warrant a second hearing, first, in the opinion of the 
Commissioners that were actually in the field that 
actually had the opportunity to interact and discuss the 

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parole with that inmate and I think that that's very 
important . 

And while I haven't had experience with it, I've 
heard that it hadn't worked that way or that there had 
been cases where that hadn't worked in that manner, but 
I've been assured that that is the policy and that is the 
way that the process will be handled. 

SENATOR JOHNSON: Senator Karnette. 

MR. GRANLUND: And just lastly, I'd say if two 
other Commissioners and a Deputy if they've made a 
decision in the field, I wouldn't be in favor of 
overruling or retrying that decision. I think they're 
there to make a decision. They're the ones who speak 
directly with the inmate and with the District Attorney 
and the inmate's representative. They're the ones with 
the packet in front of them. And if they make a decision, 
it ought to stand, unless there is something significant 
that would have changed -- very possibly would have 
changed the outcome of that hearing. 

SENATOR KNIGHT: Thank you. 

SENATOR JOHNSON: Senator Karnette. 

SENATOR KARNETTE: I understand there's a real 
back log of cases. And as a result a lot of times an 
inmate is denied parole, they have to wait longer and 
longer. How do you see us resolving this backlog and how 

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you think it will take? We have about 2,000 cases? 

MR. GRANLUND: I think there's about 2,000 cases 
in the backlog. And I know it's of great concern, 
naturally first and foremost to the inmates and their 
families that are awaiting potential release. I think 
that the Board is positioned now to really knock that 
backlog down. And I would tell you that we have had a 
short board, and now the Board is full. We have all nine 
members on the Board. We can actually run four panels a 
week, by doing four different institutions a week. 

Currently, I think we're doing 22 hearings per 
panel. And so that will take us up to 88 -- could take us 
up to 88 hearings a week or, yeah, with the four. And 
Senator Burton has a bill that could allow us to use one 
Commissioner and one Deputy Commissioner. If that were to 
be signed into law, we could actually run eight panels a 
week . 

Of course, naturally that increases tremendously 
the workload just as it would if you can imagine what 
would happen to the staff in this building, if we all of a 
sudden went from 40 senators to 160 senators and every 
body was introducing the same amount of bills and there 
would be a lot of support work to be done there. 

And I would assume that whether we work the four 
panels a week or if the Burton bill were to become law and 



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we could do eight panels a week, that the staff at BPT 
would find a way to handle that increased workload until 
we get that backlog down and under control. 

So while I was real worried about that backlog, 
even as much as a month ago, I think now there is a plan 
underway to get it addressed. 

SENATOR KARNETTE: I would think what you said 
about the extra clerical work, who would be — what 
department would be in charge of efficiently in that area, 
because I can see that as really being a bottleneck. Even 
though all of you had the hearings and you do your job, 
but the clerical job, in keeping -- who has to make that 
more efficient? 

MR. GRANLUND: Well, that actually would be the 
job, I guess, of the Chairman and the Executive Officer. 
And I know that I've been having discussions with them 
when time permits. And I think everybody is 
recognizing -- remember, Senator, we do have a new board. 

It's virtually all new members, I think. 
Commissioner Munoz with a little over, maybe a year and a 
half, I believe, I'm not sure exactly on that number, is 
the most senior member of the Board. 

And I think there have been some problems, and I 
think that they've been certainly aired and we're well on 
the road to making more progress, and particularly with a 

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full board now. I know that that has been a problem in 
the past . 

SENATOR JOHNSON: Senator Romero. 

SENATOR ROMERO: Thank you. Have you been 
trained on battered womens ' issues? An if you can briefly 
describe what type of training that has entailed? 

MR. GRANLUND: Well, it was nearly a full day, 
and I think it was my second day on the job. The first 
day was an orientation basically, and then pretty 
extensive BWS syndrome training, as well as ADA training. 
Those were two of the issues that the staff spent a lot of 
time bringing us up to speed and gave us lots of 
literature to read and so forth. 

And I think it's pretty good training. Although, 
remember, I'm pretty sympathetic to that issue and so 
don't feel I need a lot of coercion to be supportive. I 
think it's a serious problem in this society. And I think 
that sometimes you can have people who are driven to 
absolute desperation through both physical and severe 
mental abuse. And I think we have to recognize that. 

And, you know, it wasn't — years ago, it wasn't 
an acceptable defense. It wasn't recognized and so forth. 
Now, we can and, in fact, we do consider that battered 
woman's syndrome. I've only served it at one prison one 
week of hearings at the Womens Institution. 



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And we had several actually on the agenda, but 
for one reason or another, not at our request, actually at 
the request of the inmates, either those things were 
postponed or some of the women had withdrawn their 
complaint, if you will, or their claim of Battered Woman's 
Syndrome. There's an extensive review and investigation 
conducted by BPT . And as we're recognizing that more and, 
in fact, fully recognizing that that exists, that BWS 
exists . 

Part of the review and the investigation process 
winds up with the second review with the inmate to talk 
about the things that have been found through the 
investigation and see if the case can be established that, 
in fact, they were suffering from BWS. 

And I had just I think two of those and both of 
them had declined the second interview and said well I 
don't really want to pursue this, at this point. So I 
haven't had much experience with dealing with it yet, but 
I hope to in the future. 

SENATOR ROMERO: Thank you. 

SENATOR KNIGHT: Move it. 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Well, did we hear from the 
opposition? 

SENATOR JOHNSON: We haven't heard from either 
support or opposition at this point. 

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CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Support briefly. 

Anybody that spends time with him in Brannan's 
has to recuse himself. 

( Laughter . ) 

MR. VOGTS: On behalf of the L.A. County Peace 
Officers Association we urge your aye vote. 

( Laughter . ) 

MR. FARIA. I'm Clancy Faria, President of PORAC, 
and we've had an outstanding relationship. The man is a 
great worker and we support him. 

MR. ERWIN: My name is Jim Erwin. Pleasure to 
meet with you today and speak on behalf of Mr. Granlund. 
On behalf of the San Bernardino County Safety Employees 
Association, I urge your affirmative vote for Mr. 
Granlund. And also on behalf of the Association of Orange 
County Deputy Sheriff's, the Long Beach Police Officers 
Association, the Anaheim Police Officers Association -- 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Okay, we got it. 

( Laughter . ) 

MR. ERWIN: Thank you. 

MR. WATTLEY: Good afternoon, senators. My name 
is Keith Wattley. I'm a staff attorney with the Prison 
Law Office. And I don't really oppose Mr. Granlund, but I 
come here today to highlight some of the concerns that we 
have and lifers and their families and advocates have. 



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I've kind of spelled those out in a letter that I hope all 
of you have received by now. 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: We have it in the report, 
exactly , sir. 

MR. WATTLEY: I won't elaborate, but I hope that 
Mr. Granlund and any Commissioner of the Board of Prison 
Terms is committed and truly committed to resolving some 
of those issues. The backlog continues, despite a 
relatively full board now. 

We hope that he and the other Commissioners are 
truly committed and that the senators consider how 
committed these Commissioners are in determining whether 
or not to confirm them. 

Thank you . 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: I appreciate that. 
Actually, Mr. Granlund came up to us, made some 
suggestions to the Committee on how to deal with the 
backlog, which is now finding its way through the 
Legislature in a bill. 

And so I think that you'll find that he's 
independent, he's fair, you know, he's tough, but I feel 
better about him than I do many of the other members on 
the Board, because he's going to do what's right and he 
doesn't worry about what the consequences are going to be. 

And one of the things that I would ask Mr. 

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Granlund who we probably should ask somebody and I don't 
know if it's Pressley, but it seems to be -- I'm trying to 
figure out how easy it is where they make these people, 
what do you call them, the Deputy Commissioners. 

MR. GRANLUND: Deputy Commissioners. 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: And that seems just like a 
swamp of political patronage. And it's not even political 
patronage emanating from the Legislature or the Governor 
in many ways, but from within side that department. And I 
think that's one of the things, Nettie, that we're going 
to want to look at and maybe you can do something about 
that in the budget. 

But thank for your concern. 

MR. WATTLEY: I appreciate that. Thank you. 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Any other witnesses. 

Moved by Senator Knight. 

Call the roll. 

COMMITTEE SECRETARY WEBB: Senator Karnette? 

SENATOR KARNETTE: Aye. 

COMMITTEE SECRETARY WEBB: Karnette aye. 

Senator Knight? 

SENATOR KNIGHT: Aye. 

COMMITTEE SECRETARY WEBB: Knight aye. 

Senator Romero? 

SENATOR ROMERO: Aye. 

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COMMITTEE SECRETARY WEBB: Romero aye. 
Senator Johnson? 
SENATOR JOHNSON: Aye. 

COMMITTEE SECRETARY WEBB: Johnson aye. 
Senator Burton? 
CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Aye. 

COMMITTEE SECRETARY WEBB: Burton aye. 
CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Congratulations, Brett 
MR. GRANLUND: Thank you very much. 
(Applause . ) 



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CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER 

I, JAMES F. PETERS, a Certified Shorthand 
Reporter of the State of California, and Registered 
Professional Reporter, do hereby certify: 

That I am a disinterested person herein; that the 
foregoing Senate Rules Committee hearing was reported in 
shorthand by me, James F. Peters, a Certified Shorthand 
Reporter of the State of California, and thereafter 
transcribed into typewriting. 

I further certify that I am not of counsel or 
attorney for any of the parties to said hearing nor in any 
way interested in the outcome of said hearing. 

IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set my hand 
this 22nd day of June, 2001. 



f 



v ^) i jdU^ 



vlTu& 



JAMES F. PETERS, CSR, RPR 
Certified Shorthand Reporter 
License No. 10063 



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430-R 
Additional copies of this publication may be purchased for $3.00 per copy 
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^ 



HEARING 



SENATE^RULES COMMITTEE 

STATE OF CALIFORNIA 




DOCUMENTS DEPT. 

JUL 1 8 2001 

SAN FRANCISCO 
PUBLIC LIBRARY 



STATE CAPITOL 

ROOM 3191 

SACRAMENTO, CALIFORNIA 

MONDAY, JUNE 11,2001 
1:35 P.M. 



431 -R 







SENATE RULES COMMITTEE 




STATE OF CALIFORNIA 




HEARING 




STATE CAPITOL 




ROOM 3191 




SACRAMENTO, CALIFORNIA 




MONDAY, JUNE 11, 2 001 




1:35 P.M. 




REPORTED BY: 




JAMES F. PETERS, CSR, RPR 

CERTIFIED SHORTHAND REPORTER 

LICENSE NUMBER 10063 . ^ . .. - 


— 



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APPEARANCES 
MEMBERS PRESENT 

SENATOR JOHN BURTON, Chair 

SENATOR ROSS JOHNSON, Vice Chair 

SENATOR BETTY KARNETTE 

SENATOR WILLIAM KNIGHT 

SENATOR GLORIA ROMERO 

STAFF PRESENT 

GREG SCHMIDT, Executive Officer 

PAT WEBB, Committee Secretary 

NETTIE SABELHAUS , Consultant on Governor's Appointments 

SUSIE SWATT, Consultant to Senator Johnson 

TIM SHELLEY, Consultant to Senator Karnette 

CHRIS BURNS, Consultant to Senator Knight 

RYAN SHERMAN, Consultant to Senator Romero 

ALSO PRESENT 



ALICIA D. BECERRIL, Assistant Chief Counsel 
California Unemployment Insurance Appeals Board 

CHRISTY BOUMA, 

California Professional Firefighters Association 

MICHELLE CASTRO, 
SEIU 

TIMOTHY T. CREMINS, Member 
Industrial Welfare Commissioner 



PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 



APPEARANCES CONTINUED 



ALSO PRESENT 



TOM GARDNER, 

CDF Firefighters 

SHERRIE V. GOLDEN, 

California State Employees Association 

SHANE GUSMAN 

California Teamsters Public Affairs Counsel 

BOB HOUSTON 
Concrete Contractor 

DAVE LOW 

California School Employees Association 

GEORGE M. MARCUS, Member 

The Regents of the University of California 

A. MILLER MEDEARIS, Member 
Unemployment Insurance Appeals Board 

ART POLASKI, Secretary-Treasurer 
California Labor Federation 

AARON READ 

Professional Engineers in California Government 

GARLAND ROSAURO, 

Operating Engineers Local 3 

SCOTT WETCH 

California State Building Trades Council 

ALFRED K. WHITEHEAD, Member 
Public Employment Relations Board 



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INDEX 






PAGE 


Proceedings 


1 


Governor's Appointees: 




GEORGE M. MARCUS, Member 

The Regents of the University of California 


1 


Opening Statement of Support by 
Chairperson Burton 


1 


Opening Statement by Mr. Marcus 


2 


Statement of Support by Assemblymember Simitian 


6 


Statement of Support by Assemblymember Alquist 


8 


Questions by Senator Knight 




SB1 appeared to be in line with 209, and so 
what are we going to change, what was the 
real problem? 


8 


Are you saying one of the problems was the 
procedure in putting forth and voting 
on SB 1 and 2? 


9 


Questions by Senator Karnette 




How do you see the labor issues that have 
come about at us and how do you fee like 
they have been? 


11 


Questions by Senator Romero 




What can you do to facilitate the desrie of 
working people to be able to get their 
degrees? 


12 


And what about weekend classes? 


13 


Motion to Confirm 


14 


Committee Action 


14 



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916) 362-2345 



INDEX CONTINUED 




TIMOTH T. CREMINS, member 
Industrial Welfare Commission 


Page 

15 


Opening Statement of Support by Art Polaski 


15 


Opening Statement of Support by Garland Rosauro 


17 


Opening Statement by Mr. Cremins 


17 


Questions by Senator Romero 




Can you tell me what the pros and cons are 
of adding farm workers to the IWC? 


18 


Questions by Senator Knight 




Have you worked with the cowboys? 


19 


Witnesses in Support: 




SHERRIE V. GOLDEN, 

California State Employees Association 


19 


SCOTT WETCH 

State Building and Construction Trades Council 


20 


AARON READ 

Professional Engineers in California Government 


20 


CHRISTY BOUMA 

California Professional Firefighters 


20 


SHANE GUSMAN 

California Teachers Public Affairs Council 


20 


BOB HOUSTON 
Concrete Contractor 


20 


DAVE LOW 

California Schoole Employees Association 


20 


MICHELLE CASTRO 
SEIU 


20 


Motion to Confirm 


20 


Committee Action 


21 



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INDEX CONTINUED 



Page 



A. MILLER MEDEARIS, Member 

The Regents of the University of California 21 

Opening Statement of Support by Alicia Becerril 21 

Questions by Chairperson Burton 

What has the impact of the field offices 
closing been? 22 

Questions by Senator Karnette 

What ' s the maximum a person can get for 
unemployment and how do we rank with other 
states? 23 

Motion to Confirm 25 

Committe Action 25 

ALFRED K. WHITEHEAD, Member 
Public Employment Relations Board 

Opening Statement of Support by Jim Ferguson 26 

Opening Statement by Mr. Whitehead 27 

Questions by Chairperson Burton 

Can you give me the names of either 

Myers, Millias or Brown? 29 

Witnesses in Support: 

TOM GARDNER, 

CDF Firefighters 29 

CHRISTY BOUMA 

California Professional Firefighters 29 

SHERRIE GOLDEN, 

Calfornia State Employees Association 29 

AARON READ, 

Professional Engineers in California Covernment 30 



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INDEX CONTINUED 

DAVE LOW 

California School Employees Association 

MICHELLE CASTRO 
SEIU 

ART POLASKI, 

California Labor Federation 

Motion to Confirm 

Committee Action 
Termination of Proceedings 
Reporter's Certificate 



Page 

30 

30 

31 
31 
31 
31 
33 



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1 

PROCEEDINGS 


COMMITTEE MEMBER JOHNSON: We're going to be 


taking up George Marcus as a member of the Regents of the 


University of California. 


And Senator Burton. 


CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Thank you very much. Mr. 


.Chairman and members, it's really a pleasure and an honor 


for me to present to the Committee George Marcus for 


confirmation as a member of the Board of Regents. 


George Marcus is one of these people who is truly 


a self-made individual, public schools in San Francisco, 


public universities or college, I still call it, and I 


think when George went there, it was San Francisco State. 


He then went on to work both in banking, in real estate 


and then he founded his own firm, which is one of the 


largest most successful real estate brokerage investment 


development companies, he's founded two banks, more 


importantly two very wonderful restaurants including 


Corcori that's in my district. He's been eight years as a 


State University Trustee. He's been a trustee at the Fine 


Arts Museum in San Francisco, Trustee of the San Jose 


Cleveland Ballet, board member of the International 


Orthodox Christian Charities which helped organize aid to 


Yugoslavia . 


He brings much experience and enthusiasm to this 



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1 post. And although he was not a graduate of the 

2 University, he comes out of our higher public education 
system, our public education system in high school as a 

4 young man. And I say he's one of those rare individuals 
who started out with basically a lot of grit and 

6 determination, intelligence, and I'd have to say possibly 
a little bit of luck, but from being a graduate of Poly 
High and State College to getting where he is now is an 

9 indication of the type of excellence he will bring to the 

10 Board of Regents, and with that I recommend to you, my 

11 dear friend, George Marcus. 

12 COMMITTEE MEMBER MARCUS: Mr. Marcus, welcome. 

13 MR. MARCUS: I'm not going to embellish too much 

14 about my background. I'd just like to point out the 

15 things I have been in. 

16 SENATOR KNIGHT: Somebody already has. 

17 MR. MARCUS: I'm sorry? 

18 SENATOR KNIGHT: Somebody already has. 

19 MR. MARCUS: Oh, someone has. This is not a 

20 matter of being boastful, but I do want to again remind 

21 everyone of my commitment to excellence, and I think it 

22 will show that I have the ability and the judgment to 

23 support not only good policies, but the proper leadership 

24 at the university, just by pointing out a couple of things 

25 which are not on my resume. 

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The companies that I have formed, the public 
company, that's Essex Property Trust, is a trust that 
operates within the New York Stock Exchange. It is one of 
100 companies -- it is the leading company of 100 
companies over the last five years in terms of the 
measurement of success. 

The private enterprises that I'm engaged in have 
all been very successful. I have the largest investment 
brokerage company, as John has said, in the United States. 
And I just don't want to again be boastful, but I want to 
support, I think, my strong feeling about excellence and 
what I will bring to the university. 

Let me start out with some of the issues that I 
know the university is facing and that I will be 
addressing as well. 

The first is admissions. And, you know, I don't 
want to belabor this issue about the Greek immigrant 
story, because you've heard it many times, I think, by the 
other Greek immigrants. But my parents did come over. 
They didn't have a day of education, neither my mother nor 
my father. 

I was fortunate enough to come from a family that 
emphasized education. I was a first generation college 
student in my family, so I can appreciate more than most 
the importance of access to higher education, because 



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1 without that we don't have the level playing field that is 

2 necessary. We can't arrive at the American dream, which I 
am so grateful that my parents did decide to come to this 

4 country and allow me to participate in this wonderful 

5 democracy of ours. 

6 So I am here to pledge to you that I will 
continue the outreach program to help the disadvantaged 
students, whether they're first generation or in anyway 

9 disadvantaged to enter the university and to work with the 

10 faculty senate to continue -- they've been studying this 

11 issue right now and they'll be presenting it to the 

12 regents by the end of the year. So I pledge that I will 

13 be working with them to provide the most enlightened 

14 admission policies that exists in any university anywhere. 

15 The budget. I don't have to mention to all of 

16 you that the budget is under some stress because of the 

17 slowing economy. I think my background in business, 

18 business cycles and other nonprofits, I think, will help 

19 in determining better allocation of more scarce resources. 

20 And I think I stand for that. 

21 I'm very excited about the new campus. I will go 

22 through this quickly. I'm very excited about the new 

23 campus and I believe that it's an opportunity for the 

24 regents and especially a regent like myself who has both a 

25 real estate background and has an educational background 

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at CSU to create a model university, a research university 
for the next millennium. 

Resources. I don't have to tell you that, you 
know, I'm charged with making sure that the university 
uses the resources effectively and efficiently, and it has 
adequate resources in which to do that with. And I will 
now lobby all the senators to make sure that we are well 
treated in this budget negotiation that's going on right 
now, which is my job as well. 

Title two, the increase in enrollment will be 
over 60 percent -- excuse me, 40 percent in the next ten 
years. I think everyone is well aware that we are charged 
with admitting those students, providing the high quality 
of education and not compromising in that regard. 

I'll go quickly. Longer term goals are to work 
with the hospitals and make sure that they are viable in 
the future. This isn't unique to the UC system. It's 
hospitals, in general, in the United States. So I feel -- 
I'm very interested in this issue. I'm on Health Services 
Committee and I believe I can help solve some of these 
issues because of my background. 

Most importantly, I think the university consists 
of the proper administrative leadership and faculty. Most 
research universities really are based on high quality 
faculty. We have 22 Nobel Laureates, 270 Academy of 



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Science Members. And I pledge, and I believe that I 
2 should be responsible for this as well as the other 

Regents, to try to increase that by at least 50 percent 

4 during my tenure. 

5 Lastly, economic vitality. The university has 

6 throughout its existence contributed to the state's 
well-being, whether it's the agricultural mission that it 
had in the last hundred years or whether it ' s the current 

9 initiatives that the Governor is proposing, and they're 

10 the ones that relate to the institutes for science and 

11 innovation, which really will pare private funding and 

12 public funding to do research and innovation in areas that 

13 will produce more jobs and more economic vitality. 

14 My role in the Silicon Valley and I've been 

15 involved in venture capital, I think suited me well to 

16 support this creative mission that the university has. 

17 A lot of issues to deal with, a lot of great 

18 ideas. It's up to the Regents to pick those and work with 

19 them. I want to thank all of you for your time and 

20 attention. 

21 SENATOR JOHNSON: Thank you, sir. In the 

22 interests of bicameral cooperation, Assemblymember 

23 Simitian has some comments. 

24 Please, come forward, sir. 

25 ASSEMBLYMEMBER SIMITIAN: Thank you. In the 

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7 
interests of continued bicameral cooperation, I ' 11 be 


brief . 


(Laughter . ) 


I'm Assemblymember Joe Simitian from the 21st 


assembly strict. I wanted to be here today because it's 


been my pleasure and privilege to represent George Marcus 


and his business enterprises and his home in my community 


for better than 15 years. I've known him and been a 


friend for better than 15 years. 


He brings not only the financial expertise, but I 


think the kind of values that all of us would agree are 


appropriate to serve on the Board of Regents. 


I think too often the debate about UC is one of 


either/or in terms of excellence or opportunity. I think 


what you'll find with George Marcus and what you've heard 


and seen here today is someone who's committed to both 


excellence and opportunity. That's the kind of life he 


has led. That's the kind of community leader he has been. 


And it is the kind of Regent I feel sure he will be as 


well . 


I wanted you to know that as someone who has 


known him and worked with him over these great many years, 


he has my strongest support. Given the fact that you have 


my letter of last week, I'll let my comments go at that, 


unless there are other questions. 



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— 

8 



1 SENATOR JOHNSON: Well, I don't want to carry 

2 this bicameral spirit to an extreme, but Assemblymember 

3 Alquist also would like to say something. 

4 Thank you, sir. 

5 ASSEMBLYMEMBER SIMITIAN: Thank you. 

6 ASSEMBLYMEMBER ALQUIST: Elaine Alquist, State 
Assembly. You also received my letter of support. I know 
George really in a different way. We attend the same 

9 church. We are both Greek heritage, and I understand his 

10 values. And I know that it is really important to him 

11 that all students receive a good education and have 

12 opportunity in California and America, and I ask for your 

13 strong support of his confirmation. 

14 SENATOR JOHNSON: Thank you. 

15 Senator Knight, any questions? 

16 SENATOR KNIGHT: Thank you, Mr. Chairman, yes. 

17 We discussed before, George, a number of things. And I'm 

18 still confused about the resolution one and two. You 

19 repealed 1, and it didn't do anything other than identify 

20 how you were going to admit students to the university. 

21 And you repealed it, and you're going to come up with 

22 something different. 

23 But SB 1 appeared to be in line with 209. And so 

24 what are we going to change? What was the real problem? 

25 MR. MARCUS: As you know, the rescinding of SB 

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1 one and two had a lot to do with the, I think, the 

2 lightening rod that occurred because of those two 

3 resolutions that were passed in '95. 

4 As a practical matter, the process should have 

5 been sent to the faculty senate. There's a systemwide 

6 Senate. The Senate generally hears any new admission 

7 issues, and then they present it to the Regents and the 

8 Regents discuss it and approve it. 

9 What we did by rescinding it and sending it to 

10 the Senate now, that's where it is today, they're going to 

11 be reviewing our admission policies. And in accordance 

12 with the law, which is 209, they're going to come up with 

13 the most enlightened and outreaching admission policies 

14 that the UC can legally have. 

15 SENATOR KNIGHT: Are you saying that one of the 

16 problems and one of the things that caused the lightening 

17 rod was the procedure used in putting forth and voting on 

18 SB 1 and 2? 

19 MR. MARCUS: I wasn't there at the time, Senator, 

20 but I think that it was just blown significantly out of 

21 any logical proportion. And if you'll note, all of the 

22 Regents, both the supporters of SB 1 and 2, and the 

: opponents of SB 1 and 2, unanimously supports this current 

resolution, which sends it back to the Senate. 
15 SENATOR KNIGHT: And that's all the current 



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1 resolution does is send it back, and now you're going to 
come up with a new resolution that will define your 

3 admissions procedures? 

4 MR. MARCUS: Correct, that's what the a 

5 resolution says. 

6 CHAIRPERSON BURTON: I might add that one of the 
first resolutions anyone introduced by Regent Marcus was 
to get some addendum into the Chuck Yeager biography with 

9 the present . 

10 (Laughter . ) 

11 SENATOR KNIGHT: Hey, I'll bring you a couple of 

12 books - - 

13 CHAIRPERSON BURTON: That's got you're name in 

14 them. 

15 SENATOR KNIGHT: That's got my name in them. 

16 CHAIRPERSON BURTON: I was never so disappointed 

17 in my life, Senator. 

18 SENATOR KNIGHT: I can't help that I don't get 

19 along with Chuck too well. 

20 (Laughter . ) 

21 SENATOR JOHNSON: That's a handsome offer from 

22 Senator Knight . 

23 Any further questions? 

24 Senator Karnette. 

25 SENATOR KARNETTE: We talked a little bit. I 



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11 

- 


1 


forgot to ask though, how you see the labor issues that 


2 


have come about at UC and how do you see they might be 


3 


resolved or do you feel like they have been? 


4 


MR. MARCUS: I'm not familiar specifically with 


5 


what issues you're referring to. There are some issues of 


6 


the casual labor issues. 


7 


SENATOR KARNETTE: Right, that's one. 


8 


MR. MARCUS: And the casual labor issues, I think 


9 


there has been a resolution to those issues as of this 


10 


time in the majority, and this is this issue of how casual 


11 


labor is employed for, I think, at a thousand hours or six 


12 


months, it then has all the privileges and rights of 


13 


full-time employment. 


14 


SENATOR KARNETTE: Thank you. I have one more 


15 


comment though. You say you're on the ballet board? 


16 


MR. MARCUS: Yes. 


17 


SENATOR KARNETTE: Well, I want to know if you've 


18 


ever been to Jackson, Mississippi, because there's a real 


19 


ballet. It's a great place for ballet. 


20 


SENATOR JOHNSON: It ' s a hotbed as it's well 


21 


known. 


22 


(Laughter . ) 


23 


MR. MARCUS: I haven't been to Jackson, 


24 


Mississippi . 


25 


SENATOR KARNETTE: Well, you should go. 



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12 

1 SENATOR JOHNSON: Well, we won't hold that 

2 against you, I assure you. 

3 (Laughter . ) 

4 SENATOR JOHNSON: Senator Romero. 

5 SENATOR ROMERO: Thank you. I have a question 

6 first and then just a general comment. I'm a product of 
the UC and my daughter will be starting at the UC next 
fall. UC is very special to me. Although, I've often 

9 heard it criticized as an elitist institution, not very 

10 much meeting the needs of working class students. 

11 And one of the proposals has been to try to 

12 accommodate working people by offering weekend, evening 

13 classes accelerated courses. Not necessarily -- 

14 especially in graduate studies having a full-time -- you 

15 must be there full time as opposed to those students who 

16 have to work. 

17 What can you do to facilitate the desire of 

18 working people to be able to get their masters and Ph.Ds, 

19 Bachelor's Degrees from the University of California, sort 

20 of, confronting this often time critique that it's an 

21 elitist institution. 

22 MR. MARCUS: I think President Atkinson has 

23 started an initiative to review all of these off-campus 

24 study activities, the extension programs and other 

25 part-time programs especially in light of the computer 

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13 

1 technology that's available today. I think it's somewhat 

2 inevitable. Historically, though, the faculty and many, 

3 many people believe that the enriching process of being in 

4 a classroom interacting with students and faculty is very, 

5 very important . 

6 So I can't say it's done, but I think that 

7 inevitably it's going to move in that direction. It has 

8 to with technology. 

9 SENATOR ROMERO: And what about weekend classes? 

10 MR. MARCUS: I think summer has -- we have to 

11 utilize the capacity of the university, and summer is an 

12 opportunity for us to take these 5,000 new students that 

13 are coming in as well as students who want to have some 

14 extension or part-time activities. 

15 SENATOR ROMERO: Thank you. If I may just make a 

16 general comment overall to members. I think you've got an 

17 incredible back drop. I notice again, too, you were a 

18 trustee with the CSU system. I applaud you on your fight 

19 to have diversity of students, and I expect that extends 

20 to faculty as well. 

21 Just an issue for colleagues that I'd like to 

22 raise. I am concerned about the diversity of the 

23 composition of the Board of Regents. I'm a Latina. To my 

24 knowledge, I think there's one Latina on the UC Board of 

25 Regents. It would just be something that I hope that at 



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14 



1 some point we can engage the administration in having a 

2 discussion, so that hopefully we can see more diverse 

3 candidates coming before the Committee to seek 

4 confirmation. And with that, I tend to cast a vote on 

5 your behalf . 

6 SENATOR JOHNSON: Witnesses in support? 
Going once, going twice. 

8 Witnesses in opposition? 

9 Speak now? 

10 CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Is there family? 

11 SENATOR JOHNSON: I'm coming to that. 

12 CHAIRPERSON BURTON: I was just -- 

13 SENATOR JOHNSON: Move right along. 

14 ( Laughter . ) 

15 SENATOR JOHNSON: Do you have any family members 

16 you'd care to introduce. 

17 MR. MARCUS: I'm very, very pleased to introduce 

18 my daughter Alexandria Marcus . 

19 SENATOR KARNETTE : We see her around. Hi. 

20 SENATOR JOHNSON: All right. 

21 CHAIRPERSON BURTON: I'd like to move the 

22 nomination. 

23 SENATOR JOHNSON: It's been moved. Secretary, 

24 call the roll. 

25 COMMITTEE SECRETARY WEB: Senator Karnette? 

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Karnette aye 



SENATOR KARNETTE: Aye. 

COMMITTEE SECRETARY WEB: 

Senator Knight? 

SENATOR KNIGHT: Aye. 

COMMITTEE SECRETARY WEB: Knight aye. 

Senator Romero? 

SENATOR ROMERO: Aye. 

COMMITTEE SECRETARY WEB: Romero aye. 

Senator Johnson? 

SENATOR JOHNSON: Aye. 

COMMITTEE SECRETARY WEB: Johnson aye. 

Senator Burton? 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Aye. 

COMMITTEE SECRETARY WEB: Burton aye. 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Congratulations. 

(Applause . ) 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Mr. Cremins . 

MR. CREMINS: Yes, sir. 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Mr. Polaski . 

MR. POLASKI: Mr. Chairman, Art Polaski, 
Secretary Treasurer of the California Labor Federation. 
I'm not here too often, Mr. Chairman and members of the 
Committee, but I'm delighted to be here today to sponsor, 
if you will, to commend to you this confirmation of Tim 
Cremins for the Industrial Welfare Commission. Tim has 



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16 

1 gone through the ranks, if you will. He was in a 

2 five-year apprentice training program to become a plumber, 
became a journeyman plumber and has done legislative work 

4 on behalf of working people for quite a few years now. He 
is a member of the Operating Engineers Local 3, and is an 

6 advocate on behalf of particularly the operating engineers 
in his legislative advocacy. 

8 He has served on a number of boards and 

9 commissions, particularly concerning the interests of 

10 working people. He has served on the inmate prison 

11 advisory program, the prevailing wage advisory committee, 

12 the Contractor's License Board advisory committee. He is 

13 very active and understands the issues affecting working 

14 people. And as you know, this is the primary commission 

15 of the State of California committed and dedicated towards 

16 the interests of working people. 

17 It's very important that we have a representative 

18 of working people on this commission. There is no better 

19 person than Tim Cremins to do that. Based on his 

20 experience, he understands the issues of workers, is 

21 committed to advocating on their behalf, and I might add 

22 is also a practical person, and understands and knows how 

23 to work together with employers. And those are qualities 

24 that combined make him a terrific appointee to this 

25 commission and we would offer him up for your confirmation 

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today . 




Thank you . 




CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Go ahead. 


MR. ROSAURO: Mr. Chairman, 


Garland Rosauro with 


Operating Engineers. I'm the political director with 


Local 3. And I'd like to support an 


d ask your support for 


Tim Cremins for this Commission. 




Thank you . 




CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Tim. 




MR. CREMINS: Tim Cremins, 


Operating Engineers, a 


recent appointee of the IWC . I was 


appointed in February 


of this year. The IWC, as you know 


in the past couple of 


years, has dealt with some very, ver 


y big issues that have 


changed the workplace in California. 


You, the 


Legislature, implemented AB 60. The 


IWC did regulations 


for that. 




The IWC recently extended its jurisdiction into 


the construction industry, which had 


great concern to us, 


and also dealt with the minimum wage 


issue recently and is 


mandated to do so every two years. 




I think in my capacity I can provide some balance 


and some understanding. As Mr. Polaski said, I've dealt 


with both labor and management issues for approximately 


15, 16 years. And I think I provide 


a decent perspective 


of the impacts of the decision of th 


e Board and the 



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18 


impacts of the State economy. I can go on and on. I'm 


open 


to quest ions . 




CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Senator Johnson? 




SENATOR JOHNSON: No questions. 




CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Senator Karnette? 




SENATOR KARNETTE: No questions. 




CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Senator Knight? 




SENATOR KNIGHT: No questions. 




CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Senator Romero. 




SENATOR ROMERO: I just have one. 




CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Yes. 




SENATOR ROMERO: Let me just ask. There's been 


some 


discussion about including farm workers with the IWC. 


Can y 


ou tell me just quickly what the pros and cons might 


be of 


that . 




MR. CREMINS : It's my understanding there has 


been 


a wage order issued for the agricultural industry. 


There 


's been some proposed amendments for sheepherders , 


that ' 


s dealt with both at the Commission and through bills 


here . 






I do think there ' s some work that needs to be 


done 


in the agricultural industry. They were not 


represented for years, and they do need some oversight. 




SENATOR ROMERO: Okay, thank you. 




SENATOR KNIGHT: Mr. Chairman? 


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CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Well, I had a question, but 
I'll yield. 

(Laughter . ) 

SENATOR KNIGHT: Excuse me. 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Go right ahead. 

SENATOR KNIGHT: Nobody was saying anything. 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Go ahead. Well, it was a 
deep question. 

Go ahead, Senator Knight. 

SENATOR KNIGHT: You had worked with the 
sheepherders and negotiated with -- have you done anything 
then for the cowboys? 

(Laughter . ) 

MR. CREMINS : The cowboys, not yet. I'm waiting 
for you to petition the Board for the cowboys. 

(Laughter . ) 

MR. CREMINS: I ' d be happy to deal with it. 

Space cowboys. 

SENATOR KNIGHT: No the regular cowboys. 
(Laughter . ) 

SENATOR JOHNSON: Great tradition of John Wayne, 
I think. 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Other witnesses in support 
briefly, really briefly. 

MS. GOLDEN: Mr. Chairman, members, Sherrie 



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1 Golden, representing the California State Employees 

2 Association and we support Mr. Cremins . 

3 CHAIRPERSON BURTON: That's a great color on you, 
•4 Sherrie . 

5 MS. GOLDEN: Thank you. 

6 MR. WETCH: Scott Wetch on behalf of the State 
Building and Construction Trades Council in strong 

8 support . 

9 MR. READ: Mr. Chairman and members, Aaron Read, 

10 Professional Engineers in California Government in 

11 support . 

12 MS. BOUMA : Mr. Chairman and members, Christy 

13 Bouma with the California Professional Firefighters in 

14 support . 

15 MR. GUSMAN: Mr. Chair and Members, Shane Gusman 

16 on half of the Teamsters in support. 

17 MR. HOUSTON: Bob Houston on behalf of concrete 

18 Contractors in support. 

19 MR. LOW: Dave Low, California School Employees 

20 Association in support. 

21 MS. CASTRO: Michelle Castro on behalf of SEIU in 

22 support . 

23 CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Opposition, briefly? 

24 Bring anybody with you, Tim? 

25 MR. CREMINS: I didn't, family is not here today. 

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Romero aye. 



CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Okay, move the nomination 

Call the roll. 

COMMITTEE SECRETARY WEB: Senator Karnette? 

SENATOR KARNETTE: Aye. 

COMMITTEE SECRETARY WEB: Karnette aye. 

Senator Knight? 

SENATOR KNIGHT: Aye. 

COMMITTEE SECRETARY WEB: Knight aye. 

Senator Romero? 

SENATOR ROMERO: Aye. 

COMMITTEE SECRETARY WEB: 

Senator Johnson? 

SENATOR JOHNSON: Aye. 

COMMITTEE SECRETARY WEB: Johnson aye. 

Senator Burton? 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Aye. 

COMMITTEE SECRETARY WEB: Burton aye. 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Congratulations, Tim. 

(Applause . ) 

MS. BECERRIL: I would like to introduce and 
present for your consideration Miller Medearis of the 
California Unemployment Insurance Appeals Board. 

MR. MEDEARIS: I don't have a prepared speech. 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Good. 

MR. MEDEARIS: I like you. You appoint me and 



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1 I'll work hard on it. 
( Laughter . ) 

3 SENATOR JOHNSON: You begin well, sir. 

4 CHAIRPERSON BURTON: We do have your other 
statement for the record. If you just want to make some 

6 comments that would be fine. 

Or we could move right into questions. 

8 SENATOR KARNETTE : I have -- 

9 CHAIRPERSON BURTON: I've got a couple, how's 

10 that? 

11 They're now filing because of -- what is the 

12 impact of the closure of the field offices been? 

13 MR. MEDEARIS: I don't think there's been closure 

14 of the field offices, Senator. 

15 CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Well, -- 

16 SENATOR KARNETTE: EDD . 

17 CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Well, then either you're 

18 wrong or our staff is wrong. Well, they're in the process 

19 of closing them, emerging services, and just wondered 

20 what -- 

21 MR. MEDEARIS: We've just opened a new office in 

22 Oxnard. 

23 CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Well, there you go. We're 

24 talking about the local EDD offices? 

25 MS. BECERRIL: Right, you're talking about a 

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23 

different jurisdiction. In terms of ours, there are 11 
offices of appeal and 44 hearing sites, so if anything 
we've been increasing recently. 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Well, now that the staff 
let me make a fool of myself, you have any questions, 
Senator Johnson? 

SENATOR JOHNSON: No. 

(Laughter . ) 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Senator Knight? 

SENATOR KNIGHT: No. 

MR. MEDEARIS: Thank you. 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Senator Karnette? 

SENATOR KARNETTE: Here we are on a roll, but 
I've got one question. What's the maximum a person can 
get for unemployment in this state and how do we rank with 
other states? 

MR. MEDEARIS: If you mean the maximum per week, 
it's, I think, it's two -- 

MS. BECERRIL: Two hundred and thirty. 

MR. MEDEARIS: -- two hundred and thirty dollars. 

SENATOR KARNETTE: You have to make how much in 
your job in order to get that? I mean, what percentage of 
the job you lost? 

In other words, if you made -- 

MR. MEDEARIS: I don't how that's figured. I 



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1 don't decide how much people get. I decide whether or not 
they're entitled, with other people, to receive it or not 

3 receive it . 

4 SENATOR KARNETTE : And do you know how we rank? 

5 MS. BECERRIL: Nine hundred dollars is the 

6 answer. 

7 SENATOR KARNETTE: Nine hundred dollars for? 

8 SENATOR KNIGHT: That's how much they have to 

9 make . 

10 SENATOR KARNETTE: They have to make nine hundred 

11 in order to get -- 

12 MS. BECERRIL: Per quarter. 

13 SENATOR KARNETTE: They have to make 90 -- 

14 MS. BECERRIL: Per quarter. 

15 SENATOR KARNETTE: --in order to get -- that 

16 doesn't make sense. I thought it was a third of their 

17 salary. 

18 MS. BECERRIL: Let me ask Julie Krebbs to come 

19 up, because she's trying to get me the answer. 

20 CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Well, how about you meet 

21 with the Senator. 

22 SENATOR KARNETTE: Well, what I want to point 

23 out, I've got a reason for asking the question. We are 

24 very far down the list. Our people don't get very much in 

25 unemployment. And I just don't know if everybody realizes 

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that . 








MS. BECERRIL: That is a 


good point . 




MR. MEDEARIS: I agree wi 


th that? 




CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Senator Romero? 




SENATOR ROMERO: No questions. 




CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Pleasure of the committee? 




Call the role. 






COMMITTEE SECRETARY WEB: 


Support or opposition. 




CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Supp 


ort? 




Opposition? 






Call the roll. 






Do you have family here, 


sir? 




MR. MEDEARIS: I do not. 






CHAIRPERSON BURTON: All 


right, let's call the 


roll. 








COMMITTEE SECRETARY WEB: 


Senator Karnette? 




SENATOR KARNETTE : Aye . 






COMMITTEE SECRETARY WEB: 


Karnette aye. 




Senator Knight? 






SENATOR KNIGHT: Aye. 






COMMITTEE SECRETARY WEB: 


Knight aye . 




Senator Romero? 






SENATOR ROMERO: Aye. 






COMMITTEE SECRETARY WEB: 


Romero aye . 




Senator Johnson? 





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SENATOR JOHNSON: Aye. 








COMMITTEE SECRETARY 


WEB: Johnson 


aye . 






Senator Burton? 










CHAIRPERSON BURTON: 


Aye . 








COMMITTEE SECRETARY 


WEB: Burton 


aye . 






CHAIRPERSON BURTON: 


Thank you, sir. 




Congratulations . 










(Applause . ) 










CHAIRPERSON BURTON: 


Next, Alfred 


Whitehead, 




member PERB . 










Mr. Ferguson. 










MR. FERGUSON: Do you want me to 


lead off, 




Senator . 












CHAIRPERSON BURTON: 


I would think that to 




introduce your colleague. 










MR. FERGUSON: Chairman Burton an 


d members o 


f the 


Committee, sitting next to me 


is Alfred K. 


Whitehill, 


up 


for confirmation for the Publ 


ic Employment 


Relations 




Board . 












SENATOR KNIGHT: Whitehill? 








MR. FERGUSON: Whitehead, excuse i 


Tie . 






SENATOR KNIGHT: I j 


ust wanted to 


know which 


one 


it was . 












MR. FERGUSON: It's 


Whitehead, excuse me. 






Members of the Committee, my name 


is Jim 




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Ferguson. I live at 3029 Buchanan Street, San Francisco, 
California . 

As the highest ranking elected official of the 
International Association of Firefighters for California, 
Arizona, New Mexico and Hawaii, it's my pleasure to 
support the confirmation of Alfred K. Whitehead. 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Mr. Whitehead. 

MR. FERGUSON: On behalf of the 29,000 California 
Professional Firefighters -- 

(Laughter . ) 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Oh, I thought that was it. 

(Laughter . ) 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: This is not my day. 

MR. FERGUSON: I'd be glad to answer any 
questions . 

(Laughter . ) 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Mr. Whitehead, please. 

MR. WHITEHEAD: Thank you very much, Mr. 
Chairman . 

I am honored to appear before you as the 
Governor's appointee to the California Public Employment 
Relations Board. As you know, PERB currently administers 
the collective bargaining . laws for both California State 
employees and its public education employees. 

This year marks a milestone for PERB. On July 1 



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the Board will implement the Myers -Millias -Brown Act, 


which covers collective bargaining for local public 


agencies. And this legislative mandate as well as the 


other three statutes call for a board that is balanced in 


its membership and fair in its application of the laws. 


With four decades of involvement in the public 


sector law, I bring a wealth of experience to PERB . My 


background has given my a keen perspective on the issues 


that are important to labor and management, one that comes 


from having sat on both sides of the bargaining table. 


On the labor side, I have 28 years of experience 


as a professional firefighter, which has given my a vital 


understanding of the day-to-day concerns important to 


public employees. As the President of the Los Angeles 


County Firefighters Local 1014, I negotiated on behalf of 


front-line public safety personnel for many years. 


On the management side, I served as 12 years as 


the general president of the International Association of 


Firefighters, negotiating with two separate unions that 


represented all of the IFF's employees. My background and 


my record on the Board since January reflect a balanced 


approach to labor relations. 


I am committed to a fair and impartial 


application of the public sector laws, and I am honored to 


have been appointed and would appreciate your support in 


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my confirmation. 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Could you give me the first 
names of either Millias, Myers or Brown? 

MR. WHITEHEAD: George Brown. 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: George Millias and Fergie 
can give us Charlie Myers. 

MR. WHITHEAD: And actually they came from my 
era . 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Yeah. I have no questions. 

Senator Johnson? 

SENATOR JOHNSON: None. 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Senator Knight? 

SENATOR KNIGHT: None. 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Senator Karnette? 

SENATOR KARNETTE: None. 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Senator Romero? 

SENATOR ROMERO: No. 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Do you have any other 
witnesses in support, briefly? 

MR. GARDNER: Tom Gardner, President of CDF 
Firefighters in strong support. He's the right person. 

MS. BOUMA: Mr. Chair and members, Christy Bouma 
with theCalif ornia Professional Firefighters in strong 
support . 

MS. GOLDEN: Mr. Chair and members, Sherrie 

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1 Golden representing the California State Employees 

2 Association in strong support. 

3 CHAIRPERSON BURTON: That's a good color on you. 

4 ( Laughter . ) 

5 MR. READ: Mr. Chairman and members, Aaron Read 

6 not only representing CDF Firefighters who are Local 2881, 
but also the Highway Patrol Association, Professional 
Engineers and the California Association of Professional 

9 Scientists. I've known Al Whitehead for 25 years when he 

10 worked for the LA county firefighters. He was very 

11 understanding and a very effective representative. And I 

12 enjoyed working with him 25 years ago and I know I'll 

13 continue to enjoy working with him as a member of PERB . 

14 Thank you. 

15 SENATOR JOHNSON: And that's a very nice haircut, 

16 Mr. Read. 

17 (Laughter. ) 

18 MR. LOW: Mr. Chairman and members, Dave Low, 

19 California School Employees Association in support. 

20 CHAIRPERSON BURTON: As is your ' s , Dave. 

21 (Laughter. ) 

22 MS. CASTRO: Michelle Castro with SEIU 

23 representing over a quarter of a million public employees. 

24 We strongly support Mr. Whitehead. 

25 Thank you. 

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CHAIRPERSON BURTON: That's a very nice -- 

( Laughter . ) 

MR. POLASKI : Mr. Chairman and Committee, Art 
Polaski, California Labor Federation. We don't support, 
we vigorously support. Thank you. 

(Laughter . ) 

SENATOR JOHNSON: I'm glad you clarified that. 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Any opposition? 

Hearing none, move the nomination. 

COMMITTEE SECRETARY WEB: Senator Karnette? 

SENATOR KARNETTE: Aye. 

COMMITTEE SECRETARY WEB: Karnette aye. 

Senator Knight? 

SENATOR KNIGHT: Aye. 

COMMITTEE SECRETARY WEB: Knight aye. 

Senator Romero? 

SENATOR ROMERO: Aye. 

COMMITTEE SECRETARY WEB: Romero aye. 

Senator Johnson? 

SENATOR JOHNSON: Aye. 

COMMITTEE SECRETARY WEB: Johnson aye. 

Senator Burton? 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Aye. 

COMMITTEE SECRETARY WEB: Burton aye. 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Congratulations. 



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33 

CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER 

I, JAMES F. PETERS, a Certified Shorthand 
Reporter of the State of California, and Registered 
Professional Reporter, do hereby certify: 

That I am a disinterested person herein; that the 
foregoing Senate Rules hearing was reported in shorthand 
by me, James F. Peters, a Certified Shorthand Reporter of 
the State of California, and thereafter transcribed into 
typewriting . 

I further certify that I am not of counsel or 
attorney for any of the parties to said hearing nor in any 
way interested in the outcome of said hearing. 

IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set my hand 
this 29th day of June, 2001. 




i t . 



I 



, - 



JAMES F. PETERS, CSR, RPR 
Certified Shorthand Reporter 
License No. 10063 



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431 -R 
Additional copies of this publication may be purchased for $3.00 per copy 
(includes shipping and handling) plus current California sales tax. 

Senate Publications 

1020 N Street, Room B-53 

Sacramento, CA 95814 

(916)327-2155 

Make checks payable to SENATE RULES COMMITTEE. 
Please include Stock Number 431 -R when ordering. 



CA 



^HEARING 



SENATE RULES COMMITTEE 

STATE OF CALIFORNIA 




DOCUMENTS DEPT. 

JUL 1 8 2001 

SAN FRANCISCO 
PUBLIC LIBRARY 



STATE CAPITOL 

ROOM 3191 

SACRAMENTO, CALIFORNIA 

MONDAY, JUNE 18,2001 
1:30 P.M. 



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SENATE RULES COMMITTEE 
STATE OF CALIFORNIA 



HEARING 



STATE CAPITOL 

ROOM 3191 

SACRAMENTO, CALIFORNIA 



MONDAY, JUNE 18, 20 01 
1:30 P.M. 



REPORTED BY: 



JAMES F. PETERS, CSR, RPR 
CERTIFIED SHORTHAND REPORTER 
LICENSE NUMBER 10063 



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APPEARANCES 



visLviaCAt^ia rrca i him X 



SENATOR JOHN BURTON, Chair 
SENATOR ROSS JOHNSON, Vice Chair 
SENATOR BETTY KARNETTE 
SENATOR WILLIAM KNIGHT 
SENATOR GLORIA ROMERO 

STAFF PRESENT 

GREG SCHMIDT, Executive Officer 

PAT WEBB, Committee Secretary 

NETTIE SABELHAUS , Consultant on Governor's Appointments 

SUSIE SWATT, Consultant to Senator Johnson 

TIM SHELLEY, Consultant to Senator Karnette 

CHRIS BURNS, Consultant to Senator Knight 

RYAN SHERMAN, Consultant to Senator Romero 

ALSO PRESENT 

MARC APREA, 

Compaq Computer Corporation, 

Ralph's Grocery Company 

MEL ASSAEAI, 

California Association of Urban League Executives 

DOUG KIM, 

Consumer Attorneys of California 

ALBERT LeBAS 

California Peace Officer's Memorial Foundation 



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APPEARANCES CONTINUED 



MARC MARCUS , 

California Applicant Attorney Association 

JANICE JAMISON MURRAY, Member 
Workers' Compensation Appeals Board 

WILLIAM K. O'BRIEN, Member 

Workers' Compensation Appeals Board 

JOSE PEREZ 

California Hispanic Chambers of Commerce 

JOAN M. WILSON, Director 
California State Lottery 



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INDEX 

Proceedings 

Governor's Appointees: 

JANICE JAMISON Murray, Member 
Workers ■ Compensation Appeals Board 

Opening Statement by Ms. Murray 

Questions by Chairperson Burton 

Have you been there long enough to determine 
whether or not the treating physician's 
presumption has been effective, not 
effective or what? 

Witnesses in Support: 

MARC MARCUS, 

California Applicant Attorneys Association 

DOUG KIM, 

Consumer Attorneys of California 



Page 

1 



1 
1 



4 



MEL ASSEAEAI, 

California Association of Urban League Executives 4 

Motion to Confirm 4 

Statement of Support by Senator Figueroa 4 

Committee Action 5 

WILLIAM K. O'BRIEN, Member 

Worker's Compensation Appeals Board 6 

Opening Statement by Mr. O'Brien 6 

Questions by Chairperson Burton 

Have you been there long enough to get a 
point of view on the treating physician's 
presumption? 7 



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INDEX CONTINUED 

Questions by Senator Karnette 

What does the phrase treating physician's 
presumption mean? 

Questions by Chairperson Burton 

Do you have much of a backlog? 

Would it make any difference if the 
Board did in-bank decisions, would it 
expedite the process? 

Questions by Senator Romero 

Is the Alternative Dispute Resolution 
working and should it be expanded to 
other industries? 



Page 



10 



Questions by Chairperson Burton 

Are there monies put in some piggy-bank 
for this confirmation that somebody might 
take from if you don't water the lawn? 

Witnesses in Support: 

MARC MARCUS , 

California Applicant Attorneys Association 

DOUG KIM, 

Consumer Attorneys of California 

Motion to Confirm 

Committee Action 

JOAN M. WILSON, Director 
California State Lottery 

Statement of Support by Senator Polanco 

Statement of Support by Senator Soto 

Opening Statement by Ms. Wilson 



11 



11 

11 
12 
12 

12 
12 
12 
15 



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-S.J <± 



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INDEX CONTINUED 






QucsLiuns by Ciict i ipei aun Bux'Lun 




Pacre 


What do you mean by making it 
entertainment ? 


an 


16 



Did you have a position on Senator Vincent's 
Bill? 

Discussion about Compulsive Gambling 

Questions by Chairperson Burton 

Do you put out warnings? 

Questions by Senator Karnette 

What do you think about the fact that 52.7 
percent go to prices when it's only 
supposed to be 50 percent? 

Questions by Senator Knight 

I'm interested in those warning labels 
and what you think? 

Is there a maximum dollar amount that 
you're proposing to have available for 
schools? 

Witnesses in Support: 

JOSE PEREZ, 

California Hispanic Chambers of Commerce 

MARC APREA 

Compaq Computer Corporation 

Ralph's Grocery Company 

Motion to Confirm 

Committee Action 
Termination of Proceedings 
Reporter's Certificate 



18 
20 

20 



21 



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22 



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26 
27 
27 
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PROCEEDINGS 


CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Governor's Appointees . 


Appearing Janice Jamison Murray, Member of the Workers' 


Compensation Appeals Board. 


Hi, how are you doing? 


MS. MURRAY: Good afternoon. 


Good afternoon, Mr. Chairman and Members of the 


Rules Committee. It is with great pleasure and honor that 


I appear before you as a candidate for a Commissioner to 


the Workers' Compensation Appeals Board. I thank you in 


advance for your consideration of my appointment. 


Prior to my appoint for membership on the WCAB, I 


was an attorney in the office of Legislative and 


Intergovernmental Affairs at the Federal Communications 


Commission. I also served as the Assistant People's 


Counsel for the District of Columbia, and also in the 


office of Presidential Personnel during the first 


administration of President William Clinton. 


My 'experience as an attorney with the FCC, the 


federal government and as a public advocate has prepared 


me well for serving as WCAB Commissioner. If confirmed as 


a member of the WCAB, it would be my goal to hear and 


decide all cases before the Board consistent with the 


statutory directives prescribed by this legislature and in 


a full and fair manner. 



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Additionally, I will 


2 
endeavor to properly and 


honestly 


apply the appropriate principles of law to the 


facts of 


each case, assuring 


that all parties are provided 


with due 


process as required 


by the law. While 


understanding and appreciatin 


.g that the impact that these 


decisions have on individual 


lives, I will strive to 


render determinations in a civil, respectful and 


thoughtful manner. 






I thank you for your 


time and consideration of my 


confirmation. I would be happy to answer any questions 


that you 


might have this afternoon. 




CHAIRPERSON BURTON: 


Senator Johnson? 




SENATOR JOHNSON: No 


questions, Mr. Chairman. 




CHAIRPERSON BURTON: 


Senator Knight? 




SENATOR KNIGHT: No 


questions . 




CHAIRPERSON BURTON: 


Senator Romero? 




SENATOR ROMERO: No 


questions . 




CHAIRPERSON BURTON: 


Senator Karnette? 




SENATOR KARNETTE: N 


o questions . 




CHAIRPERSON BURTON: 


Have you been there long 


enough to determine whether or not the treating 


physician's presumption has b 


een effective, not effective 


or what? 








MS. MURRAY: Actually, I have not. I've been 


there about a week and a half 






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CHAIRPERSON BURTON: You have. 

MS . MURRAY : Yea . 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: All right. What have you 
learned in a week and a half? 

MS. MURRAY: That there are a lot of cases. 

(Laughter . ) 

SENATOR KNIGHT: Let her go. 

(Laughter . ) 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Do you have anybody you'd 
care to introduce? 

MS. MURRAY: There might be one person. My 
husband is here actually and I'd like to introduce him. 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: He's hiding in the back. 

MS. MURRAY: Kevin. 

MR. MURRAY: I'm just enjoying the role of 
supportive spouse. 

MS. MURRAY: But I would like to say happy 75th 
birthday, Senator -- 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: It would mean a lot more 
for you if she was on the Committee. 

MS. MURRAY: That's very true. 

(Laughter . ) 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Witnesses in support? 

SENATOR JOHNSON: Wish me a happy father's day. 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Witnesses in support? 



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1 MR. MARCUS: Mark Marcus, California Applicant 

attorneys Association. we are pleased to support tne 
candidacy of Ms. Jamison Murray. She has fine 
credentials. We do have a lot of cases as she said and 
we're looking forward to her skill and expertise in 

6 resolving them. 

MR. KIM: Doug Kim with Green and Azevedo and on 
behalf of the Consumer Attorneys of California, we're also 

9 in support . 

10 MR. ASSAEAI: Mel Assaeai for the California 

11 Association of Urban League Executives. We're very 

12 pleased and proud to support her candidacy. We think 

13 she's eminently well qualified and that she may be the 

14 first African American appointed to the Committee. We are 

15 very supportive. 

16 CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Any witnesses in 

17 opposition? 

15 SENATOR KARNETTE : Move it. 

19 CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Senator Figueroa, on this 

20 or something else? 

21 SENATOR FIGUEROA: On this. As someone who has 

21 worked in the workers compensation area for 20 years, you 

22 have Ms. Murray's resume in front of you and you know her 

24 educational attainment, but I have known her for a number 

25 of years now and -- 

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CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Traveling companions? 

SENATOR FIGUEROA: Yes, sir. 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: All right. 

SENATOR FIGUEROA: Amongst other things. And 
have met -- 

MS. MURRAY: You aren't going to elaborate? 

SENATOR FIGUEROA: No, I'm not going to, 
elaborate, because that will spoil your presentation. 

SENATOR KNIGHT: We maybe ought to open it up for 
questioning again. 

(Laughter . ) 

SENATOR FIGUEROA: I just wanted to tell you, 
that this young woman is very knowledgeable, 
compassionate, understands the issues of injured workers, 
not just what is written in our law books, but understands 
the complications and the thoroughness that has to be 
investigated in some of these issues, and I would highly 
recommend her. 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Any in opposition? 

I think it was moved by Senator Knight, was it? 

SECRETARY COMMITTEE WEBB: Senator Karnette . 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Either way. 

Call the roll. 

COMMITTEE SECRETARY WEB: Senator Karnette? 

SENATOR KARNETTE: Aye. 



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COMMITTEE SECRETARY 


WEBB: Karnette aye 


6 

* 




senator Knignt? 








SENATOR KNIGHT: Aye. 






COMMITTEE SECRETARY 


WEB: Knight aye. 






Senator Romero? 








SENATOR ROMERO: Aye. 






COMMITTEE SECRETARY 


WEB : Romero aye . 






Senator Johnson? 








SENATOR JOHNSON: Aye. 






COMMITTEE SECRETARY 


WEB: Johnson aye. 






Senator Burton? 








CHAIRPERSON BURTON: 


Aye . 






COMMITTEE SECRETARY 


WEB : Burton aye . 






CHAIRPERSON BURTON: 


Congratulations, Janice. 




(Applause . ) 








CHAIRPERSON BURTON: 


William K. O'Brier. 


L . 




MR. O'BRIEN: Mr. Chairman, Senators, I' 


ve been 


told 


that I should make a sli 


ght introduction as 


to who I 


am . 


I've met with some of th 


.e senators and they 


know a 


little bit. 








I'm a retired trial 


lawyer. I was a trial lawyer 


for 


over 30 years. I represented both plaintiffs 


and 


def e 


adants. And prior to that time, I worked as 


a hearing 


representative for Employers ■ 


Mutual, defending workers' 


ccmp 


cases. I haven't done any comp for 3 years 


except 



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for the last seven months, where I have been sitting as a 
iiifcjiubfcjx ul the wCAB learning something, hopefully, and 
grateful for being there. 

That's all. 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Do you have anybody to 
introduce? 

MR. O'BRIEN: I have my wife Ming Chang O'Brien, 
who's here to support me. And Chairman Merle Rabine, who 
is the Chairman of the Commission. 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Have you been there long 
enough to get a point of view on the treating physician 
presumption, whether it's been effective, not effective or 

MR. O'BRIEN: Yes, I have. I know that the 
treating physician presumption came up in legislation that 
arose, I think, in 1989. And it was introduced in a way 
or as a reason for avoiding a lot of difficult situations, 
which arose out of treatment mills and legal mills, 
particularly in southern California, that it attempted to 
put some order in the process. 

However, I am sorry about offering any personal 
opinion on legislation, because -- 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Feel free. 

MR. O'BRIEN: -- of where I am. 

(Laughter . ) 



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1 MR. O'BRIEN: The problem that I see is that it's 

turned into a game of goncha, ana tnat trie applicant's 
counsel and defense counsel play with Section 4600, 4601 

4 and 4602 of the Labor Code in such a way that it becomes a 

5 chess game and increases litigation. 

6 I'm sure that it helps solve the problem of fraud 
and also of overtreating and overlitigating . But at the 
same time, it's intricately technical and causes problems 

9 as a result in terms of the amount of cases that we see. 

10 SENATOR KARNETTE: Senator Burton, and I don't -- 

11 CHAIRPERSON BURTON: How about can I -- 

12 SENATOR KARNETTE: I want to know what he means, 

13 exactly by presumption, I don't understand that phrase. 

14 CHAIRPERSON BURTON: What presumption means? 

15 SENATOR KARNETTE: Yeah, well, I hear it a lot, 

16 but I really don't know what treating physician 

17 presumption really means. 

18 MR. O'BRIEN: It's my understanding, under the 

19 Labor Code, that the defendant gets the opportunity to 

20 control medical treatment for the first 30 days subsequent 

21 to an industrial injury. And subsequent to that time, the 
21 injured worker has a move that he or she can make to get 
23 another physician. And it is that that leads to the game. 
2^ SENATOR KARNETTE: Okay. 

2 5 CHAIRPERSON BURTON: What would you do about -- 



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do you have much of a backlog? 


MR. : BRIEN: We don ; t have a backlog, buu we 


handle over 350 cases a month. And at the present time 


there are five Commissioners and that leaves about 15 or 


20 minutes per case and some of the them are four feet 


thick . 


CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Okay. And that's five out 


of seven, there's two vacancies? 


MR. O'BRIEN: Yes. 


CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Would it make any 


difference if the Board did more in-bank decisions would 


that expedite, slow it down or not make any difference? 


MR. O'BRIEN: Well, that's very interesting. I 


am such a neophyte, that I dare not offer an opinion. 


However, Merle Rabine -- 


CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Compared to Mrs. Murray, 


seven months versus seven days . 


( Laughter . ) 


MR. O'BRIEN: Mr. Rabine, our Chairman, was 


President of the Applicant's Association and has an 


exquisite knowledge of the Labor Code and the workers' 


compensation area and has attempted to respond to problems 


that he has seen raised over a consistent period of time 


that have remained unanswered. 


And he, therefore, has developed a policy where 



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1 important issues are considered on bank and he has 

published ox he has seen chai six on-bank opinions have 
been published since I've been there over seven months. 

And the Applicant's Association and defense bar 
has indicated that they are grateful for those on-bank 

6 opinions . 

7 CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Senator Johnson? 
B SENATOR JOHNSON: No questions. 

9 CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Senator Karnette? 

10 SENATOR KARNETTE: No. 

11 CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Senator Knight? 

12 SENATOR KNIGHT: No questions. 

12 CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Senator Romero? 

14 SENATOR ROMERO: Thanks. I'd just like to hear 

15 your thoughts on the alternative dispute resolution 

16 process, if you think it's working, and if it should be 

17 expanded to other industries as well . 

18 MR. O'BRIEN: It's might understanding that by 

19 that statute, the alternative resolution process arises 

20 under four separate scenarios automatically. The first is 

21 coverage. I'm not aware offhand of what the next three 
12 are. 

22 My general impression is that so few of these 

24 cases are resolved under the ADR situation that it almost 

25 makes ao difference. Now, that's from someone who's only 



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11 

served for seven months, but I think perhaps one half of 
one percent maximum are resolved by auk. 

SENATOR ROMERO: Okay. 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Were there any monies put 
away in a piggy-bank for this confirmation that somebody 
might take from you if you don't water the lawn? 

MR. O'BRIEN: If there were, I would have trusted 
my wife with them. 

(Laughter . ) 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Inside joke. 

SENATOR KNIGHT: I was going to say, I didn't get 
the question. 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: You'll get it. I explain 
it to you in camera and in bank. 

Witnesses in support? 

MR. MARCUS: Mark Marcus, the California 
Applicant Attorneys Association. We are pleased to 
support Commissioner O'Brien's candidacy. Unlike our 
prior candidate, he has been on the job seven months. In 
those seven months, I've had the privilege of reviewing a 
number of his decisions. I think they are fare, well 
reasoned, well thoughtout and I think he's an asset to the 
Commission . 

MR. KIM: Doug Kim with Green and Azevedo on 
behalf of the Consumer Attorneys and we're also in 



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1 support . 

t CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Anyone in opposition? 

3 Yes , sir . 

Oh, different person. 

5 (Laughter . ) 

6 CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Okay. Move the nomination. 

7 COMMITTEE SECRETARY WEB: Senator Karnette? 

8 SENATOR KARNETTE: Aye. 

9 COMMITTEE SECRETARY WEB: Karnette aye. 

10 Senator Knight? 

11 SENATOR KNIGHT: Aye. 

12 COMMITTEE SECRETARY WEB: Knight aye. 

13 Senator Romero? 

14 SENATOR ROMERO: Aye. 

15 COMMITTEE SECRETARY WEB: Romero aye. 

16 Senator Johnson? 

17 SENATOR JOHNSON: Aye. 

18 COMMITTEE SECRETARY WEB: Johnson aye. 

19 Senator Burton? 

20 CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Aye. 

21 COMMITTEE SECRETARY WEB: Burton aye. 

22 CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Congratulations, Bill. 

23 (Applause . ) 

24 CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Joan Wilson, Director of 

25 the State Lottery. 

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SENATOR POLANCO: Mr. Chairman and members, if 


you ; d permic me 10 introduce Ms. wilson. un a personal 


note, we go back about 20, 25 years. She was working at 


that point in time with 7/11 with the Southland 


Corporation. Her involvement then was with the 


Mexican/American Grocers Association. As you know, she 


has been a very nonpartisan bipartisan kind of person, 


having been appointed by President Reagan to a prestigious 


post as an advisor to the President's physical fitness. 


She also was responsible working with Dick Floyd 


as it related to the issue of the tax on the snack. She 


took a lead role in repealing and moving in the direction 


to repeal that. The issue of selling alcohol and/or 


tobacco to teenagers was a great concern in her role at 


the time with 7/11. It was through her efforts that she 


led the fight to create the color coding license that can 


bring easy identification to individuals who are coming to 


try to buy or purchase alcohol and/or tobacco. 


I think she's done a wonderful job in the short 


period of time that she has served. She's very civic 


minded. She reaches out. She comes from the retail area. 


Certainly, retail sales are important that bring money to 


the lottery, that bring money to schools. I'm here to ask 


that you give her your support and move her confirmation 


forward to the Senate for an appropriate vote. 



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1 CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Senator Birthday. 

2 ( Laughter . ) 

SENATOR SOTO: Thank you very much. Yes, I also 
-i have the honor of being here and speaking in favor of Ms . 
Joan Wilson. I've only known her a short time, perhaps 
almost two years in the time that I've been up here, and 
I've become well enough acquainted with her to know that 
the lottery has surely taken a different course and become 
a lot more successful in doing the job that I really was, 

10 I guess, elected to do. 

11 Joan Wilson, in my estimation, has a terrific 

12 track record in having worked with a community and what 

13 Senator Polanco just elaborated on, and I think that with 

14 her leadership now we've turned, I think, reorganization 

15 of the entire lottery system to the point where now it's 

16 really making money and doing the things that it should 

17 do. 

18 Her leadership, which will be ending on June 

19 30th, and I think she's worked there almost a year now, 

20 that will have the single largest year in the California 

21 lottery history in terms of lottery proceeds under her 

22 direction. And I think that speaks well for her 

23 ccrrection and leadership. 

24 And I can go on talking about Joan Wilson, 

25 because in the short time that I've known here, I've known 



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her to be very, very effective, a high energy individual 
who has a strong desire co run the lottery with utmost 
efficiency, and she really wants to provide as much 
revenue as possible for us to be able to provide it for 
our educational system, and I request your favorable 
consideration of Joan Wilson. 

Thank you very much. 

MS. WILSON: Thank you both. 

Mr. Chairman and Members of the Committee, 
they've pretty much said everything I was going to say, 
but I was with 7/11 for 28 years. And of those 28 years, 
the 7/11 stores were the largest key account for the 
lottery, with over 1,400 locations in California, which 
they are still the largest key account, because most of 
them do sell lottery products. 

I come to this job with a lot of experience and 
knowledge with the California lottery. I've dealt with 
them every day since their inception, 15 years ago because 
everything that happened with the lottery in the State of 
California went through my office, so I was as very much 
aware, when I came here ten months ago, some of the 
problems that were facing the retailers on the outside. 

I've tried to correct a lot of those problems to 
increase sales and make it easier for them to handle that 
product to make more money for education. 



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1 And as Senator Soto said, this is the first year 

chat we have reached $2. a billion in sales with $1 billion 
to go to education this year. And I realize that that's 

•i only a small part of the education budget, but $1 billion 
is a lot of money, and it's the first year that we have 
done it. And with that, I would like to continue trying 
to improve the lottery and make it more of an 
entertainment industry rather than something it was voted 
in by the people and try to manage it and do the best we 

10 can for the people of California. 

11 So with that, I would like to continue on with 

12 the lottery, if you see fit to give me the confirmation 

13 that makes it possible. 

14 And with that, I guess if you have any questions, 

15 I'd be happy to answer them. 

16 CHAIRPERSON BURTON: What do you mean by making 

17 it an entertainment? 

18 MS. WILSON: Well, it seems to me that the 

19 lottery has been kind of a closed group for a long time, 

20 and people perceive it as a gambling industry more so -- 

21 CHAIRPERSON BURTON: How could they possibly do 

22 that? 

23 (Laughter . ) 

24 MS. WILSON: Well, because of the connotation of 

25 selling tickets or -- 

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CHAIRPERSON BURTON: I mean that's what it is. 
I : m not for in or against in. 

MS. WILSON: Well, that's true, but we also kind 
of looked at it as kind of a fun thing, and to play 
responsibly with buying tickets and we'd like to promote 
more of it along that way than, you know, it being 
gambling . 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Well, one of the criticisms 
of lottery before there was a lottery was the fact that in 
all probability it was the people who could least afford 
to be blowing money would be blowing money. And 7/11 
stores, at least in the area I live in, are all basically 
convenience in low-income neighborhoods, where I live. I 
can ' t speak - - 

MS. WILSON: Where you live. 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: I can't speak -- so it 
basically -- and it would just seem to me that, and I'm 
not criticizing Southland, but after seeing some of the 
ways they were trying to open stores in San Francisco, I 
wondered why they could stay in businesses and it turned 
our for awhile, they got sold -- they didn't. 

But it would just seem that, you know, with the 
advertising, are there any demographic, you know, 
audiences that you go to, because I think, you know, 
people with more money are going to spend it, you know, 



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somewhere else. And 


I guess 


this has taken over for the 


people that used to 


go to tne cnurcti nails 


and play, 


you 


know, a 


lot of Bingo 


• 












Well, I mean that's 


just something 


f I worry 


about . 


And I know that the 


lottery 


did give like, 


which is 


sort 


of 


chump 


change, but 


you did 


it , a $60 ,000 


contract 


to put 


in 


a hot 


line for gai 


■nbling p 


roblems . And according 


to the 


pec 


>ple involved is that the 


calls, the hot 


line call 


s, 


went up 


signif icantl' 


/ because of what the Commission 


did. 


So 


I think that ' s , y 


ou know, 


that ' s a good 


thing . 








And I guess 


lastly 


there ' s a bill 


going through 


or 


was g 


Ding through 


by - - w 


hose? 










MS. WILSON: 


Senator Vincent. 










CHAIRPERSON 


BURTON: 


Yeah. Did y 


ou guys h 


ave a 


position 


up, down or 


sideway 


s? 










MS. WILSON: 


We didn't take a position on i 


t , but 


we 


would 


have benefited from 


it, certainly, 


if it ha 


d gone 


thz 


■ough, 


because it would have gave us more 


prize money. 






Could I answer some 


of the questions? 








CHAIRPERSON 


BURTON: 


Well , they ' re 


just more 


comments 


than questions. 












MS. WILSON: 


Well, 


first of all, b 


eing from 


7/11, 


we 


didn 1 1 


b target low 


- income 


areas to build 


stores . 








CHAIRPERSON 


BURTON: 


Well, you don't have 


a lot 


of 


7 / lis 


in Beverly Hills or 


Pacific Height 


s . You h 


ave 



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19 


them in the 


Haight, in the Western area. 


ms . 


wiLiSOW: Ana a lot ol tnat nad to do with the 


price of pro 


perty, as we know, working for a corporation 


that is in b 


usiness to make money. 


Speaking to our advertising, we advertise on TV 


and we do it 


to the general public, so it isn't targeting 


any one area 


• 


We 


do not do direct mailers, which targets 


specific areas. We don't do that. So we do do it in 


several different languages, because, again, we want to 


make sure that everyone does get the message with our 


advertising . 


So with that, we do, but no direct mailing. 


And 


as far as compulsive gambling, I have been 


working with 


Mr. Tucker. And you're right, we gave 


actually $65 


,000 this year was targeted for them, because 


we ' re locked 


in with how much we can give because that ■ s 


Education ' s 


money . 


But 


I did check with Oregon and a few other 


states that 


give several million dollars, and they take it 


out of their 


educational fund, which we can't do here, but 


we can help 


him by, I just recently gave them an office at 


the lottery 


building, when they're up here and they need 


to do work or use the phone or secretarial help or 


whatever we 


can do there. I've also offered to work with 


him on other 


organizations, such as horse racing, card 



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clubs, so that they also can pay their fair share to help 
with this problem. 

The lottery players have a very small problem of 
compulsive gambling, where horse racing and card clubs 
have more, but it's still a problem. We have the 
brochure, which we printed and sent out, and I've offered 
that to all of the other organizations. They can use the 
same brochure, just put their name on it. The one thing 
that is needed is a bill that says it's mandatory that you 

10 display information on compulsive gambling. We have 

11 nothing in place in this State . 

L2 I worked with the State of Nevada on compulsive 

13 gambling and they do have legislation -- 

14 CHAIRPERSON BURTON: What about on like the 

15 lottery machines or in the stores? 

16 SENATOR JOHNSON: Prop 65 type warnings. 

17 MS. WILSON: Yeah, so that, you know, if they 

18 need a brochure, they could get it in any place that has 

19 anything to do with gaming, you know, horse racing or 

20 whatever, because they don't have to display anything. So 

21 Z do believe that there's a piece of legislation needed 

22 for that. 

23 So with that, I've been there ten months and I 

24 will continue to work with them on this problem. 

25 CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Senator Johnson. 



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SENATOR JOHNSON 


: No questions . 






LnAiKrnKaurj rsuitiuiN: ^enaior ^arneiue ." 






SENATOR KARNETTE: I have something that I 




merit 


ioned when you were 


in my office. When Mr. Bar 


ker was 


here 


we talked about the 


fact that 52.5 percent of 


the 


proceeds went to prizes. 


But the way I understand 


the 


initiative, only 50 per: 


ent can go to prizes, and now it's 


52 . 7 


percent, and we got 


into a little discussion a 


bout 


whether or not it was allowable to do that. And that 


both 


ers me a little bit, 


because anything you make 


over 


any 


savings that are in 


administration are supposed 


to go 


to e 


ducation is my understanding. 






MS. WILSON: Ri 


ght . And since we did have 


this 


discussion, if it's okay 


with the Chair, I would li 


ke to 


bring our person up that 


1 s in charge of finances . 


He was 


the 


finance director when this took place. Because 


— a T 

3. JD ± 


told 


you, this was under 


Director Pope joy when this 




happ 


ened, and he as lot 


Tiore information, maybe cou 


Id make 


it a 


little clearer than 


the discussion we had this 




morn 


ing . So with your p 


ermission, I would like -- 






SENATOR JOHNSON 


: Senator Karnette, unless 


this 


is something you're real 


ly eager to pursue, I mean, 


we 


have 


the nominee before 


as. And if she's not, you 


■enow, 


creoared to personally answer questions, maybe that 


1 s 


some 


thing you can take u; 


;ith her staff at a futur 


e time . 



peters shorthane reporting corporate:: ?16 362-22 



22 

SENATOR KARNETTE: I'll be happy to do that, 
ScuaLui Juliiiijuii. I j ubL wdiiued lo point: it oui , because 
it's gone up a little bit from 52.5 to 52.7. 

SENATOR JOHNSON: Thank you. 

Senator Knight, questions? 

SENATOR KNIGHT: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

I'm interested in those warnings you're going to 
put out. They're great you know. I bought a hammer the 
other day and there were three warnings on the hammer, one 
on the handle, one on the shaft and one on the head. And 
they make a whole hell of a lot of sense. 

SENATOR JOHNSON: And he still has a band-aid on 
his thumb. 

( Laughter . ) 

SENATOR KNIGHT: That's right. They're useless, 
useless as a whistle on a plow. Secondly, -- 

Yeah, whistle on a plow, haven't you heard that 
one? 

SENATOR KARNETTE: No, that's a new one. 

SENATOR JOHNSON: Let me make a note of that. 

(Laughter . ) 

SENATOR KNIGHT: Well, they're useless. 

Secondly, what's the objective of the lottery? 
Is there a maximum dollar amount that you're proposing to 
have available to schools or is there some level of 



~ — ■ 



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gambling that would be satisfactory and you would try and 
hold some level? 

MS. WILSON: No, 34 percent of every dollar -- 

SENATOR KNIGHT: No, the maximum dollars that 
you're taking in? 

Obviously, you've taken in more dollars in the 
last year since you've been there than they have in the 
years previously, so that means that you're increasing the 
dollars. What is your objective and how high do you want 
to go? 

MS. WILSON: Well, again, every dollar that we 
take in, they still get 34 percent, but, you mean, for 
compulsive gambling? 

SENATOR KNIGHT: Yeah, well, you've got to have 
gamblers to buy lottery tickets, whether -- I don't care 
what you call them. 

MS. WILSON: You mean to give to the compulsive 
gambling organization? 

SENATOR KNIGHT: Oh, no. 

MS. WILSON: I'm not following you then. 

SENATOR KNIGHT: You're a business you say. 

MS. WILSON: Right. 

SENATOR KNIGHT: Okay. What is your objective 
next year as far as a dollar amount? 

MS. WILSON: Oh, what we project in sales? 



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SENATOR KNIGHT: 


Yeah. 






MS. WILSON: $2 


. 85 b. 


l ilion . 






SENATOR KNIGHT: 


Okay. And you had what this 


year? 


MS. WILSON: 2. 


8 . 








SENATOR KNIGHT: 


And 


you want 


to go to 2.85 so 


what ' s 


the year after that, 2 


9? 






MS. WILSON: I 


don' t 


know . We 


haven't talked 


about 


that yet . 










SENATOR JOHNSON 


: I think the 


thrust of Senator 


Knight 


's question is how 


much 


is enough 


? How high is 


high? 


And would there come a 


point in 


time where you've 


taken 


enough money in a 


given 


year from 


the lottery that 


you discontinue the advertising and the 


outreach and say 


that ' s 


enough? 










MS. WILSON: We 


11, I 


really can't answer that 


question. It's kind of 


like you speculate as to what it 


will b 


e . And I don ' t be 


lieve 


I ' ve been 


there long enough 


to speculate how high is 


high 


or if it 


ever gets, because 


I do k 


now - - 










SENATOR KNIGHT: 


Well 


. , what yo 


u ' re telling me is 


it ' s never going to get 


there . 








MS. WILSON: We 


11, I 


don ' t kno 


w, it could, I 


guess , 


but I wouldn't kn 


ow . 








SENATOR JOHNSON 


: Senator Romero. 



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SENATOR ROMERO: Do you have any special 
icLumiiiendciLiuutJ lor Wednesday : s big iouuo by chance/ 
(Laughter . ) 

MS. WILSON: Well -- 

SENATOR ROMERO: For entertainment purposes only 

SENATOR JOHNSON: We're going to move into 
executive session before any such -- 

(Laughter . ) 

SENATOR ROMERO: No questions. 

SENATOR JOHNSON: All right. 

Witnesses in support, briefly? 

MR. PEREZ: Jose Perez, representing the 
California Hispanic Chambers of Commerce. We know that 
the Governor a couple of weeks ago set a goal to do 25 
percent procurement for small business owners throughout 
the State out of its total procurement dollars. And we 
were reviewing the lottery's record, and they're pretty 
close. They're about 24 percent. 

We think Ms. Wilson is going to continue that 
effort. She understands the value of diversity and we 
think she's a good choice for this position. 

Thank you . 

SENATOR JOHNSON: Thank you, sir. 

MR. LeBAS : My name is Al LeBas . I'm the 
Executive Director of the California Peace Officers 



PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916 



26 

Memorial Foundation. I first became acquainted with Joan 
some seven years ago, when she found out what our 
commission -- pardon me, what our foundation was all about 
4 in support of peace officers who died in the line of duty 
and their heirs involving minor children. She expressed 
her compassion in the most meaningful way by influencing 
7/ll to come aboard as a major corporate sponsor of our 

8 foundation. 

9 I think her concern for young people is a quality 

10 that serves her well as the director of the lottery in 

11 addition to her many other qualifications both in and 

12 around government that we heartily endorse her 

13 confirmation. 

14 SENATOR JOHNSON: Thank you, sir. 

15 Next witness. 

16 MR. APREA: Mr. Chair and Members of the 

17 Committee, Mark Aprea representing Compaq Computers and 

18 Ralph's Grocery Company. I've known Joan Wilson for 15 

19 years. We were both working for the Southland Corporation 

20 at the time. And I know of no one who is a more tireless 

21 worker, who is more dedicated to the success of the 

22 lottery, and who would do a better job on behalf of the 

23 State. And so I whole heartedly urge your support of her 
2- confirmation. 

2 5 SENATOR JOHNSON: Thank you, sir. 

PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 



27 

Witnesses in opposition? 

Witnesses in opposition? 

Ms. Wilson, do you have anyone present, family 
members ? 

MS. WILSON: No, I don't. 

SENATOR JOHNSON: All right. What's the pleasure 
of the Committee? 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Move it. 

SENATOR JOHNSON: Secretary call the role. 

COMMITTEE SECRETARY WEB: Senator Karnette? 

SENATOR KARNETTE : Aye . 

COMMITTEE SECRETARY WEB: Karnette aye. 

Senator Knight? 

SENATOR KNIGHT: Aye. 

COMMITTEE SECRETARY WEB: Knight aye. 

Senator Romero? 

SENATOR ROMERO: Aye. 

COMMITTEE SECRETARY WEB: Romero aye. 

Senator Johnson? 

SENATOR JOHNSON: Aye. 

COMMITTEE SECRETARY WEB: Johnson aye. 

Senator Burton? 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Aye. 

COMMITTEE SECRETARY WEB: Burton aye. 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Congratulations. 



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(Applause . ) 
MS. W1L.SUJN: TnanK you very much 



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29 

CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER 

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I further certify that I am not of counsel or 
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way interested in the outcome of said meeting. 

IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set my hand 
this 9th day of July, 2001. 



J) 



JAMES F. PETERS, CSR, RPR 
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^HEARING 

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PUBLIC LIBRARY 



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SENATE RULES COMMITTEE 
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HEARING 



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MONDAY, JUNE 25, 2001 
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REPORTED BY 



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CERTIFIED SHORTHAND REPORTER 
LICENSE NUMBER 10063 



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APPEARANCES 
MEMBERS PRESENT 

SENATOR JOHN BURTON, Chair 

SENATOR ROSS JOHNSON, Vice Chair 

SENATOR BETTY KARNETTE 

SENATOR WILLIAM KNIGHT 

SENATOR GLORIA ROMERO 

STAFF PRESENT 

GREG SCHMIDT, Executive Officer 

PAT WEBB, Committee Secretary 

NETTIE SABELHAUS, Consultant on Governor's Appointments 

SUSIE SWATT, Consultant to Senator Johnson 

TIM SHELLEY, Consultant to Senator Karnette 

CHRIS BURNS, Consultant to Senator Knight 

RYAN SHERMAN, Consultant to Senator Romero 



ALSO PRESENT 
BETH CAPELL, 
Health Access California 

JARVIO A. GREVIOUS, Chief Deputy Director, 
Department of Social Services 

MYESHIA GRICE, 

California Youth Connection 

WILLIAM J. KEESE, Member 

State Energy Resources and Conservation 

and Development Commission 



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APPEARANCES CONTINUED 



ALSO PRESENT CONTINUED 



ANGELA MORA, Patient Advocate 
Department of Managed Care 

JERRY ROSE, Director 

Yolo County, Department of Employment 

and Social Services 

MARJORIE SWARTZ, 

Western Center on Law and Poverty 

ALAN WATAHARA 

California Children's Lobby 



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INDEX 



Page 



Proceedings 1 

Governor's Appointees: 

JARVIO A. GREVIOUS, Chief Deputy Director 

Department of Social Services 1 

Opening Statement by Mr. Grevious 1 

Questions by Chairperson Burton 

Is the Administration going to take any 
steps to try to have continued funding for 
the TANIF program from the feds? 3 

When does TANIF funding from the feds 

run out? 3 

Does your Department handle foster care 
programming? 4 

Has the Department taken any steps to 
ameliorate the problem specified by the 
Hoover Report regarding foster kids moving 
from home to home? 4 

What steps are you taking to provide after 
care for the emancipated youth? 5 

Has our State taken advantage of all the 
federal dollars out there? 7 

Statement by Senator Johnson regarding the 
emancipated youth issue. 8 

Statement by Senator Karnette regarding the 
emancipated youth issue. 9 

Statement by Senator Johnson regarding the 
emancipated youth issue. 10 

Statement by Chairperson Burton regarding the 
emanicpated youth issue. 10 



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INDEX CONTINUED 



Page 



Statement by Senator Johnson regarding the 
emancipated youth issue. 11 

Questions by Senator Romero 

What are you doing to improve the working 
conditions of home health care workers? 12 

Questions by Chairperson Burton 

Who's in charge of your IHSS oversight 
program? 13 

Witnesses in Support: 

JERRY ROSE, Director 

Yolo County Department of Employment and 

Social Services 14 

MYESHIA GRICE 

California Youth Connection 15 

ALAN WATAHARA 

California Children's Lobby 15 

Motion to Confirm 16 

Committee Action 16 

WILLIAM J. KEESE, Member 

State Energy Resources Conservation and 

Development Commission 17 

Questions by Chairperson Burton 

What are the forecasters saying about the 
natural gas crisis? 17 

Have you set aside some strategic reserve? 17 

Does the CEC, the PUC and the Oversight 

Board meet how frequently? 18 

How about meeting before a crisis, wouldn't 
that make sense? 19 



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INDEX CONTINUED 

Page 



Questions by Senator Romer 



o 



Does communication work well like this or 
would you like a consolidation of some sort? 19 

Questions by Senator Karnette 

Explain how new power plants will be using 
less energy? 20 

Motion to confirm 22 

Questions by Chairperson Burton 

What are you doing about conservation? 22 

What kind of projects are you doing with 

the $323 million? 22 

Do ■ you know about clean diesel? 23 

Committee Action 25 

ANGELA MORA, Patient Advocate, 

Department of Managed Care 26 

Questions by Chairperson Burton 

How do you see your job? 26 

What's your background? 27 

How would the public know there's a 

Patient Advocate out there? 27 

Your ' s is an independent department? 28 

How do you coordinate with Health Services 

and Department of Insurance? 28 

Questions by Senator Karnette 

How would my district office know what 

you ' re doing? 2 9 



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INDEX CONTINUED 

Page 

Witnesses in support: 

BETH CAPELL, 

Health Access California 30 

MARJORIE SWARTZ 

Western Center on Law and Poverty 30 

Questions by Chairperson Burton 

Is your media campaign put out to bid? 30 

Motion to Confirm 31 

Committee Action 31 

Termination of Proceedings 32 

Reporter's Certificate 



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PROCEEDINGS 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Jarvio A. Grevious, Chief 
Department of Social Services Director, DSS excuse me if I 
mispronounced your name. We have your statement of goals 
for the record, so you could highlight that and be happy 
to answer any questions. 

MR. GREVIOUS: Thank you, Mr. Chairman and 
members of the Committee. For the record, the name is 
Jarvio Grevious. I know that it's a little problematic 
for people running into it the first time, particularly in 
California . 

(Thereupon a brief recess was taken.) 

MR. GREVIOUS: Mr. Chairman, your staff asked 
that I prepare a brief statement of qualifications for the 
committee. Shall I run through that for you? 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: No, we've got that for the 
record . 

SENATOR JOHNSON: We'd just ask if you would ever 
pull a stunt like Senator McPherson just did? 
( Laughter . ) 

MR. GREVIOUS: I don't happen to be Scottish, 



sir 



(Lauhgter . ) 

SENATOR JOHNSON: Thank you. 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Just give us a little bit of 



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your background. 

MR. GREVIOUS: Okay. Very well, sir. As I said, 
my name is Jarvio Grevious. For the past 21 years, I've 
been privileged to serve in California state service. 
Roughly eight years of that time I've spent with the 
Legislative Analyst's Office, so working for you the 
legislature, advising on a variety of fiscal and policy 
matters in a variety of policy areas, primarily education, 
social services and health. 

As a result of that, I guess the point I'd like 
to make is that I do understand the difficulties of the 
work that you do, and I also understand from the 
Administration's perspective how we might best interact 
with you to develop your policy proposals. 

Also, as with respect to my administrative 
experience, I've served for over nine years as the Deputy 
Director of Administration within my current Department, 
the Department of Social Services. In that respect, I've 
had the privilege of working as a principal on a number of 
major initiatives, including welfare reform, the group 
home reform provisions of SB 933, and also, most recently, 
the child support reform, which I believe was in 1999. 

So I've worked closely with your staff to 
develop, and in many cases, implement various aspects of 
these initiatives. 



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CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Let me ask a couple of 
questions . 

MR. GREVIOUS: Sure. 

SENATOR JOHNSON: Good idea, Mr. Chairman. 
CHAIRPERSON BURTON: All right. Is the 
administration going to take any steps to try to have 
continued funding for the TANIF program from the feds? 

MR. GREVIOUS: Oh, yes, absolutely. We're 
intimately involved in the reauthorization discussions 
that are taking place or have been taking place over the 
past year. We expect those discussions to continue over 
the next year . 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: When does TANIF funding from 
the feds run out? 

MR. GREVIOUS: The authorization for the program 
will terminate on September 30th of 2002. 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Well, they don't have a hell 
of a lot of time then. 

MR. GREVIOUS: That's correct. I believe the 
congressional discussions on it will start next spring is 
my understanding. We have some more minor hearings -- in 
fact, we have a staff member going back on the 27th, so 
it's this Wednesday, to testify before a Food Stamps 
Subcommittee . 

As you know, the food stamps program is also up 



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reauthorization at the same time. I mean, this is an 
sue, Senator, that we fully expect to develop some 

ions on with respect to the issues surrounding under 
spending and simplification in the food stamps program, 

ontinued funding at the current level, we hope, for 
the TANIF program, and we fully expect to have 
significant -- substantial discussions with the members of 
the Legislature as well as your staffs. 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Does your department do the 
where we see foster care program? 

MR. GREVIOUS: Yes, sir. 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: And are you familiar with 
the Hoover Report on foster care about -- they have many 
criticisms, but one of the biggest was that kids would 
just be bounced, you know, from home to home to home to 
home to home never getting any roots, never settling down. 
Has the Department done anything, taken any steps to try 
to ameliorate that problem? 

MR. GREVIOUS: Yes, sir, I believe that report 
was from about two years ago, if I recall. 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Right. 

MR. GREVIOUS: The stability of -- the permanence 
of placements for foster children is a priority for us. 
Specifically, what we've done in that record is to -- one 
the things that we've done is to encourage the placing 

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agencies to make greater use of the child welfare services 
case management system. 

One of the things that that system will allow is 
to have the placing agencies capture that health and 
educational status of the children in question, so that 
foster parents, other placement providers when they accept 
the child can better know what the status of the child is 
and what their particular needs are. 

The other thing that we've don't is work closely 
with the placing agencies to encourage better assessments 
of the childrens ' needs upfront before they're placed. We 
believe that to the extent that their needs can be 
asserted upfront, there is less -- we can lessen the 
chance for the placements to break up. 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: And what steps are you 
taking to provide after care for, you know, the 
emancipated foster youth? 

MR. GREVIOUS: We have done several things in 
that regard in the last two years. Providing for the 
services necessary to help transition foster youth at the 
age of 18 from our system to independence is a high 
priority for us . 

In the last several years we have, at the behest 
of the youth themselves, found that the provision of 
transitional housing for this particular population is an 



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issue. We've taken some steps to address that. 

In the past year's budget, we had included $10 
million, as you might recall, Senator, in the Department 
of Housing and Community Development for the development 
of supported housing for these children. That money is 
matched on a four-to-one basis, so it effectively is about 
$50 million worth of resources. 

That's a small step, but in the right direction. 
We've done that. We've also created or established 
regional forums to get state and local housing officials 
together with our Social Services agencies so they can put 
together an effective proposal to draw down that funding. 

In addition to that, in the past year, we have 
included three and a half million dollars in the budget 
for stipends that can be made available for emancipated 
foster youth to pay for things such as textbooks, 
transportation to and from school, employment services 
things of that nature . 

And also in the past year, too, we've increased 
pursuant to the Chafee federal legislation we've made 
Medi-Cal health care coverage available for foster care 
children from the age of 18 to 21. And we've also 
expanded, I believe effectively, doubled the size of the 
independent living program, so that that service is also 
available to these youths up to the age of 21. 

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That's some of what we've done. There's a great 
deal that remains to be done. 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Has there ever been a study 
to see what happens to these kids -- I guess, it would be 
interesting to see what happened to them before and what 
happened with implementation of these programs? 

MR. GREVIOUS: That is an excellent guestion and 
we do not have solid evaluations of what is the — 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Do you have anecdotal 
stuff? 

MR. GREVIOUS: I'm sure that we do, Senator. I 
don't have them at hand with me today, but that is an area 
that I want to make a priority. 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Well, they ought to do that, 
because I know when I was very surprised -- to show you 
how interesting my life is. One day about a year ago or 
more I was watching Cspan and they had a big -- we had the 
big reauthorization or authorization program for foster 
care in the Congress, and it expanded the program, 
provided more money to states, and I mean it was like 
about a, you know, 384 to 20 bill which showed a 
tremendous bipartisan support for it, which meant it was, 
you know, a very popular program. 

And I'm just wondering has our State taken 
advantage of every possible federal dollar that was made 



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available through that bill? 

MR. GREVIOUS: Yeah, Senator, I'm sure that we 
have, but I'd like to go back and maybe assert that for 
you . 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Senator Johnson? 

SENATOR JOHNSON: Thank you. Let me say, first 
of all, I think any Governor has the right to make the 
appointments that he or she wishes, but there is literally 

subject that gets me as angry as foster care. And I 
have found some of your answers, for me personally, and I 
know other members of the Committee feel differently, but 
I find to be less than satisfactory. 

I don't think it's a step in the right direction 
to be dealing with the emancipated kids and continuing a 
system of dependency. It is a confession of failure of 
the system as it exists today that at age 18 with all the 
supervision that they have received from government 
officials that they're not prepared at age 18 to be fully 
emancipated. They can vote, you know. Literally, no 
subject gets me as angry as the failure of that foster 
care system, and I do agree with Senator Burton that this 
is something that people feel very strongly about across 
party lines . 

And I feel that our system today is an absolute 
disgrace, top to bottom, and I just wanted you to know 

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that I feel that strongly about it. 

2 MR. GREVIOUS: Senator, I am absolutely willing 

3 to work with you on any specific proposals with you or 

4 your staff with respect to improving the system. We're 

5 quite serious -- we are aware of the problems that it has, 

6 and we're absolutely committed to making whatever 

7 improvements we can. 

8 CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Senator Knight? 

9 SENATOR KNIGHT: No questions. 

10 CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Senator Karnette? 

11 SENATOR KARNETTE: I'd just like to say 

12 something, though, a little bit in disagreement with what 

13 Senator Johnson said. I agree that people should be able 

14 to do -- make their own decisions at 18, but how many of 

15 our 18 year olds could get into a college with nobody 

16 helping them or even get a job. 

17 And I've seen this a great deal. And I think 

18 it's not so much that they don't want to, especially if 

19 their foster kids. I've taught foster children and 

20 sometimes they get bounced from one place to another and 

21 they just need some guidance. It's not always money -- 

22 MR. GREVIOUS: Absolutely. 

23 SENATOR KARNETTE: -- or some place to live. 

24 Some transition, and I agree they shouldn't need a lot of 

25 help, but they do need some. 



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CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Thank you. 

SENATOR JOHNSON: Not to belabor the point. 
(Laughter . ) 

SENATOR JOHNSON: But I'm going to belabor the 
point. It is a confession of failure of the existing 
system that those kids aren't able to survive on their 
own, that we've got to continue this dependency. 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Well, if I could just jump 
in here . 

( Laughter . ) 

SENATOR JOHNSON: You're the Chairman, you can 
jump in any time you want. 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: You know, my folks didn't 
kick me out of the house at 18. I didn't kick my daughter 
out of the house at 18. And I mean I had a better shot at 
going in than foster kids . I think very few, saving 
except for Kobe Bryant, kids at the age of 18, no matter 
whether they're foster kids or not are really ready. 

And I don't -- I mean, I think that the program 
is infinitely flawed. And if anybody ever, you know, 
wants to find out how much, is read that Little Hoover 
Milton Marks Commission Report, or is it the Milton Marks 
Little Hoover Commission report. 

But, you know, there is a problem, but basically 
don't know of any kids that are ready to be dumped out 

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at 18 unless they're extraordinary, without a little bit 
of a hand, but I think one of the problems is that if they 
weren't prepared at all from whatever age to the age of 
18, then even this transitional housing stuff or whatever 
won't work. But I mean, I think we're in more or less 
agreement about the basic problem of it, but again I don't 
know of any kids that are ready to just be dumped out at 
18 . 

SENATOR JOHNSON: There are kids, but I guess I'd 
prefer to concentrate on what we agree on and do something 
to deal with that. The system and how we treat these kids 
up to 18 is a damn disgrace, and it really needs a clean 
sheet of paper and starting it over again and doing it 
right . 

And to say that it's a step in the right 
direction to simply add on to that, it seems to me is an 
acceptance of the existing failure. And, again, there is 
literally nothing that we do in government that I feel 
more strongly about than this. And it was the nominee's 
response to the -- or saying that that was moving in the 
right direction. It's adding on to a failed system. It's 
putting another bell and whistle on something that really 
needs to step back to square one with a clean sheet of 
paper . 

Thank you for your indulgence, Mr. Chairman. 



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CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Senator Romero? 

SENATOR ROMERO: Thank you. 

Let me ask a question about home health care 
workers. In the state of California, of course, we've 
created public authorities. And to my knowledge, things 
have worked in different ways in different parts of the 
State . 

In Los Angeles County, for example, I attended a 
briefing not too long ago. And I was very dismayed to 
learn that, you know, the agency is doing all the right 

Lngs. The money is being sent. It gets to LA County, 
but rather than going to support and assist home health 
care workers in the way that it was intended to, it gets 
redirected. 

How does your agency oversee this? What are you 
doing? Are you aware of it? And what can you do to make 
sure that the money that is directed does not get 
redirected away from improving and enhancing the working 
conditions of home health care workers? 

MR. GREVIOUS : Senator, I wish I could respond to 
that, but if you're referring -- we are responsible for 
the in-home supportive services program, which provides 
people that provide home maker and chore serves, so are 



you referring to that same program 



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MR. GREVIOUS: You know, as I understand how -- 
and I may need to research your issue, because I don't 
want to misspeak to it. 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Talking about IHSS. 
SENATOR ROMERO: Yes, and LA County in 
particular. Money gets forwarded, so it gets forwarded, 
but how does the agency oversee what happens once it gets 
to the County, where at the LA County level it gets sent 
in different directions everywhere from, at least, where I 
thought it was going? 

MR. GREVIOUS: To be honest with you, I'm not 
aware of that. I haven't been aware of that problem 
occurring. I would be very pleased to look into that and 
get back to you on that. 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Who's in charge of your IHSS 
oversight program there, do you know? 

MR. GREVIOUS: The specific deputy director, sir? 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Well, whoever. 

MR. GREVIOUS: Well, our department is in charge 
of the in-home supportive services. 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: I know that. You ought to 
go back and find out, because that is a very -- it's a 
very big issue for many of us. If you get a good IHSS 
program to keep people in the home out of a nursing home, 
we're saving money and all that. But what we do is we put 



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14 

money into the program for that purpose, one, and the 

cals take the money to counter this general fund and use 
it any way they want, and I think it would just~be helpful 
for me who it was that sort of oversees the program. 

MR. GREVIOUS : Senator, I'd be happy to 
personally look into that and get back to Senator Romero. 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Did you have any family 
here with you? 

MR. GREVIOUS: No, sir, not today. 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Witnesses in support? 

Briefly . 

MR. ROSE: Briefly. Good afternoon, Chairman 
Burton and members of the Senate. Jerry Rose. I'm the 
Director of Employment and Social Services for Yolo 
County. And previous to that appointment I was Assistant 
Director to Riverside County. Both the counties are proud 
to be leaders in helping people attain self sufficiency. 

If there's one word that comes to mind when I 
think of Mr. Grevious, I've worked with him for the last 
seven to eight years, it's of a solver, a solution maker. 
A number of problems being on the receiving end, out in 
the local area of the policy implementation he spoke about 
earlier, it's not hard to imagine that a lot of 
differences of opinion may arise in the various 
j ur i sdict ions . 



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And we've always known Mr. Grevious to be a 
person that looks for problem solving rather than problem 
making, and we appreciate those efforts and -support the 
appointment . 

MS. GRICE: Hi, my name is Myeshia Grice . I'm 
coming from the California Youth Connection. And as you 
were saying earlier, I think that this gentleman really 
understands how dysfunctional the system is. And with 
being on the stakeholders committee, he not only listens 
to our concerns, but he actually takes into consideration 
and tries to implement some of the things that we're 
saying . 

So I did have something written up, but I don't 
think that it's necessary. I grew up in the system 
myself. And then to see someone that was so quiet at 
first, but then to see how much he's a mover and a shaker 
within the system, I think that he's the best person 
because who's going to hold the people accountable for 
who's providing the services to the children and family. 

These are the most vulnerable children and 
families that you're dealing with. And I think that he's 
the best person to do it. 

Thank you. 

MR. WATAHARA: Alan Watahara, president and 
general counsel for the California Children's Lobby. We 



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share the Committee's concern and we are in enthusiastic 
support of Mr. Grevious with this appointment. 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Right. Thank you. 

Any witnesses in opposition? 

Move the nomination . 

Call the roll. 

COMMITTEE SECRETARY WEB: Senator Karnette? 

SENATOR KARNETTE: Aye. 

COMMITTEE SECRETARY WEB: Karnette aye. 

Senator Knight? 

SENATOR KNIGHT: Aye. 

COMMITTEE SECRETARY WEB: Knight aye. 

Senator Romero? 

SENATOR ROMERO: Aye. 

COMMITTEE SECRETARY WEB: Romero aye. 

Senator Johnson? 

SENATOR JOHNSON: Aye. 

COMMITTEE SECRETARY WEB: Johnson aye. 

Senator Burton? 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Aye. 

COMMITTEE SECRETARY WEB: Burton aye. 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Congratulations, sir. 
(Applause . ) 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: William J. Keese, Energy. 

MR. KEESE: Good afternoon, Mr. Chairman. 

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CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Good afternoon. 

What are the energy forecasters saying about what 
the future of the natural gas crisis and what the problems 
might be, do you have any idea, Bill? 

MR. KEESE : Actually, what we have -- the way we 
got into the problem is because everybody predicted 
natural gas prices last year were going down. And as they 
went up, few people bought and put into storage. 

We had the problem, and that has convinced people 
now that we must put it in. We've had a reasonably 
temperate year so far this year. We're putting a lot of 
gas into storage. We have a number of projects that are 
underway. One of the new pipelines will come on by the 
end of this month -- is projected to come on by the end of 
this month, and we will have an ability to move more gas 
in . 

We would suspect in about a year, we will have 
stabilization in the natural gas market. 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Do you have, like, have you 
set aside some kind of strategic reserve? 

MR. KEESE: In natural gas we have a 
significant -- we can't bring into the State on a current 
basis what we need. We have a number of underground 
storage facilities and we are adding to that. 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: But you don't have anything 



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to put them in? 

MR. KEESE: We're putting it in right now as fast 
we can. As I understood, I'll use Friday's numbers, if 
you will, in the southern California area, we have 60 
percent of the storage filled and in the PG&E territory, 
we have about 70 percent of it filled to capacity. 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Well, I thought we weren't 
getting enough in to store it, I thought I heard you say 
that . 

MR. KEESE: We're bringing it in now as fast as 
we ca A year ago we got into the problem because nobody 

bought it in. 

CHAIRPERSON KEESE: Okay. We've got you. We've 
got the PUC . We've got the oversight board. We had the 
PX . I guess, do we still have the PX, are they still 
floating around? 

MR KEESE: It's in bankruptcy. 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: How do you guys -- what do 
you do together, do you meet every month, meet every week, 
talk to each other, don't talk to each other, coordinate, 
what? 

MR. KEESE: On an institutional level, we do not 
meet. On a team basis through the Governor's office in 
accroaching the problems we have now, we have a generation 
am that meets every day that includes members and key 

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staff of all of those agencies. We have a transmission 
team that meets regularly. We have a natural gas team 
that meets regularly. 

So key leaders of all of those entities are 
meeting on a virtually daily basis to handle the crisis 
situation we have here. 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Well, how about meeting 
before there is a crisis, wouldn't that make some sense? 

MR. KEESE: That would make wonderful sense. 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Let's see, can you meet 
before there is a crisis when there already is a crisis, I 
would ask you, sir? 

SENATOR JOHNSON: Well, you could meet before the 
next crisis surely. 

(Laughter . ) 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Okay, all right. 

SENATOR KNIGHT: That wouldn't fit. 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Senator Johnson? 

SENATOR JOHNSON: No questions, Mr. Chairman. 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Senator Romero? 

SENATOR ROMERO: I would just follow up on that 
question earlier about communication. There's different 
agencies and entities, do you think it works well like 
this or would you envision some type of consolidation into 
one agency to address all issues of energy? 



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MR. KEESE: I don't think anybody believes it's 
working well. Some consolidation is necessary. Whether 

's consolidation into one agency, I'm not sure. If you 
take and look at the Public Utilities Commission, for 
instance, they set rates for telephone, for water, for 
railroads for a number of things that are not energy. 
They also do natural gas and electricity. So the total 
merger perhaps is not appropriate. 

The Energy Commission deals with energy issues. 
I would say there's more of a need to look at the 
diversified responsibility that falls in the ISO Oversight 
Board/Energy Commission area, and perhaps to some of the 
duplicated functions . 

We have a major energy efficiency program. The 
has a major energy efficiency program. We site power 
plants and their associated transmission lines. The PUC 
has a program to site transmission lines. There may be 
some aspects that should be placed somewhere more 
ropria te . 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Senator Knight? 

SENATOR KNIGHT: No questions. 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Senator Karnette? 

SENATOR KARNETTE: One comment about gas, the new 
plants that are coming on line are going to be fueled by 
natural gas. And I understand that ultimately the new 

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plants will be using less natural gas than the old ones, 
would you explain? 

MR. KEESE : Correct. We have currently sited 
over 10,500 megawatts. Let me put it in perspective. 
That's 21 major power plants, all of which are natural gas 
combined cycle plants . But these plants run at 
efficiencies approaching 60 percent. And the plants that 
they will displace were in the low 30s in percent. 

So our actual statistics and our projections from 
2002 to 2005 show that the amount of natural gas that will 
be used for electricity generation in California will go 
down. It will not go up, even though we're adding plants, 
because of the efficiencies of the new plants. 

SENATOR KARNETTE: And as I commented in my 
office earlier, I think if we could get a little more art 
work into the power lines, make them look like the Eiffel 
Tower, we might not have people complaining so much. 

MR. KEESE: We would hope so. I will say -- 

I will say, Senator, we do have some optimism. 
We are going to have the first major power plant in ten 
years coming on line this week, the second one on July 2nd 
and the third one on July 7th. 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: We get that with the 
Governor's speeches. 

(Laughter . ) 



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MR. KEESE: Oh, right. 
SENATOR KNIGHT: Move. 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Senator Karnette, are you 
finished? 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: I'm finished. What are you 
guys doing about conservation? 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: We are working extremely 
actively in, I would say, the energy efficiency side of 
conservation. We have a number of conservation programs 
being handled by the Department of General Services for 
State buildings. We handle all State agencies to get 
people to conserve. 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Weren't you given the thing 
under the Sher bill? 

MR. KEESE: We were given approximately $383 
million seven weeks ago. We have put $200 million of that 
out on the street already in projects , 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: To do what? What kind of 
pro j ects ? 

MR. KEESE: We have lighting projects, where 
we're changing out lighting and using say one-third of the 
amount of power. We have positive control of 
air-conditioning and lighting systems, so that you can 
optimize the amount of power that's being used or reduce 
the amount of power when the price gets too high. 

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We have biomass power projects that are on its 
way. We have biogas. We have wind projects that are -- 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Are you familiar -- did 
somebody bring, and if they didn't I'll get it, to you're 
attention, but someone has a concept, as strange as it 
might be, but actually clean diesel. Do you know what I'm 
talking about? 

MR. KEESE: Yes. That's more in the 
transportation phase, but we are looking at sulfur-free 
diesel that offers tremendous potentials because you can 
clean it up . 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: This was also beyond 
transportation. I think it was actually -- it would be 
used in some generators. I'll get you -- if you haven't 
got it, I'll get you the stuff for Professor Larson there. 

My staff, I think Brian Kelly, has been in touch 
with you about there is a potential program to have small, 
basically either batteries, fuel cells or something for 
backups at traffic lights that basically cost about, I'd 
say, almost probably one-tenth of what the current process 
is that could be used if there ever were blackouts or 
things of this sort to keep traffic lights that are 
self-contained going. And I know he's been in touch with 
somebody at the Department of Energy, but by the look in 
your face, you have no idea what I'm talking about. 



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MR. KEESE : He's not been in touch with me. I am 
familiar with it. I would say we have had a very 
3 aggressive -- 

•: CHAIRPERSON BURTON: He's got a bill ready to 

move, and we're waiting to get it at the office from you 

6 guys . 

MR. KEESE: We have had a very aggressive program 
to replace all incandescent light bulbs, the read 

9 screens -- 

10 CHAIRPERSON BURTON: This doesn't deal with 

11 traffic lights. 

12 MR. KEESE: This is not dealing with traffic 

13 lights. 

14 CHAIRPERSON BURTON: No, mine is dealing with 

15 traffic lights. 

16 SENATOR JOHNSON: They are related, though. 

17 MR. KEESE: Our program is reducing the amount of 
power that the traffic lights take by 90 percent, and 

19 therefore, they can be supported by battery backup. 

20 CHAIRPERSON BURTON: As long as we've got them 
here, call my office and tell them to get Brian Kelly down 

22 here . 

23 MR. KEESE: Between the number of programs, the 

24 ZalTrans has ten, your commission has an -- 

25 CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Called LED light. 

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SENATOR JOHNSON: But they operate -- 

MR. KEESE: They use ten percent of the power as 
standard lights. They're much brighter. 

SENATOR JOHNSON: It relates in the sense that 
the stand-by batteries can operate at intersections far 
longer than if they have the -- 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: We've got two choices, we 
can withhold the vote he gets here. You can promise us 
that you'll stick around, Bill. 

MR. KEESE: I will promise you, I will stick 
around . 

SENATOR JOHNSON: Move the nomination. 
CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Witnesses in support? 
Witnesses in opposition? 

Have you got any family here besides Larson? 
Is he here to make sure you don't make a mistake? 
MR. KEESE: Yes, Senator. 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: How would you grade him 
there, professor? 

Moved by Senator Johnson. 

Call the roll. 

COMMITTEE SECRETARY WEB: Senator Karnette? 

SENATOR KARNETTE: Aye. 

COMMITTEE SECRETARY WEB: Karnette aye. 

Senator Knight? 



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SENATOR KNIGHT: Aye. 

COMMITTEE SECRETARY WEB: Knight aye. 

Senator Romero? 

Senator Johnson? 

SENATOR JOHNSON: Aye. 

COMMITTEE SECRETARY WEB: Johnson aye. 

Senator Burton? 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Aye. 

COMMITTEE SECRETARY WEB: Burton aye. 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Leave the roll open for 
Senator Romero. 

Congratulations, Bill. 

Thank you . 

Angela Mora, patient advocate, Department of 
Managed Care . 

Hi . 

MS. MORA: I have a written statement. Would you 
like me to read it or would like my to — 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: You can just kind of wing it 
for a few minutes. Tell us you how see your job? 

MR. MORA: How I see my job? I think it's got 
wonderful potential. 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Okay. 

(Laughter . ) 

MS. MORA: For the patients, and the HMOs in 

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Cal if ornia . 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: What's your background? 

MS. MORA: My background, I've been a community 
worker for about 30 years. I have a Masters in education. 
I've been a psycho therapist and have run community based 
projects for about the last 20 years. I've been involved 
in the health field and mental health specifically for the 
last, also, close to 30 years. 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Okay. How would any 
patients know or how would the public know that there's 
like a patient advocate who might be there? 

MS. MORA: We have the duty to outreach to over 
22 million enrollees. We are in the process of developing 
a media campaign to outreach to as many enrollees as we 
can throughout the State. We have several programs that 
are already in place to travel throughout the State to 
inform individuals about the rights under California laws, 
and also about how to access the Department of Managed 
Health Care's HMO help center, to receive assistance if 
they have any problems with their HMOs. 

So basically we have, what we call, a mobile 
information center, which is not a vehicle. It's a group 
of individuals from my office who attend several different 
community events and talk to consumers, mainly throughout 
those vehicles. 



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We also have a pharmacy initiative that we're 
going to be working with. We are already working with 
pharmaceutical changes to utilize pharmacies as outlets 
for information and educational materials to enrollees 
also throughout the State. 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: All right. You're an 
independent department, right? They moved it from 
corporations over to an independent department, right? 

MS. MORA: That's right. That's the Department 
of Managed Health. My office is the Office of the Patient 
Advocate is part of the Business Transportation and 
Housing Agency and is right now within the Department of 
Managed Health Care . 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: It's in business? 

MS. MORA: It's the Department of Managed Health 
Care and the Office of the Patient Advocate are part of 
the Business Transportation and Housing Agency. 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: It seems like an odd place 
for it. 

How do you coordinate all right, there's Health 
Services, Department of Insurance and you, where do you 
fit? 

MS. MORA: I think there's a lot of great 
potential for collaboration. We must work together. We 
are coordinating with some of the main key players within 

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the Department of Health Services and DOI as well, so that 
we can discuss the different issues affecting HMO 
enrollees, mainly related to accessing information and 
assistance to receive assistance to take care of problems 
they might be having with their HMOs and to educate. 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Senator Johnson? 

SENATOR JOHNSON: No questions. 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Senator Knight? 

SENATOR KNIGHT: No questions. 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Senator Karnette? 

SENATOR KARNETTE: How do you -- how would my 
district or our district offices know what you're doing? 
What's your plan for that? 

MS. MORA: What I'm doing is I'm visiting -- I 
wrote letters to all legislators and I'm sure we sent a 
letter to your office as well. And I'm meeting personally 
with Legislators to let them know of our mobile 
information center. 

SENATOR KARNETTE: Excuse me, but do you have 
people on your staff -- see, my staff they don't tell me 
everything, they don't have time. 

MS. MORA: I have 13 individuals. And they are 
part of the HMO mobile information center, which we can 
take into your community. 

SENATOR KARNETTE: My staff knows that, right? 



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MS. MORA: Yes. 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Well, it's probably better 
a question put to your staff. 

SENATOR KARNETTE: Yeah, I think so, too. 

( Laughter . ) 

SENATOR KARNETTE: Right, I agree with that, but 
[ ' m saying it doesn't help if the people in the districts 
who call our offices don't know what you do, we can't tell 
people that you're there. And so I think it's important 
that all the district offices know what's going on. 

MS. MORA: Absolutely, I agree with you. 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Senator Romero? 

SENATOR ROMERO: No questions. 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Senator Romero? 

SENATOR ROMERO: No questions. 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Witnesses in support? 

MS. CAPELL: Beth Capell on behalf of Health 
Access California. We are among the folks that help to 
fight for HMO reform. We're pleased to be here today in 
support of Angela Mora's appointment as the first patient 
advocate in California. 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Marjorie Swartz . 

MS. SWARTZ: You're in luck today, Mr. Chairman, 
I'm losing my voice. 

(Laughter . ) 

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CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Not as much luck as Richie. 

MS. SWARTZ : Marjorie Swartz, representing the 
Western Center on Law and Poverty. And we are here in 
strong support of Ms. Mora's confirmation today. She has 
a budget to do outreach. It is not a huge budget, but we 
think that they have chosen to spend it very wisely. We 
think that there is evidence that the calls, consumer 
calls, to the Department are growing at a rapid rate. And 
it indicates that they're doing an excellent job of 
outreaching to the consumers of California. 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: When you say you have a 
media campaign, is that like put out to bid or sole source 
or what? 

MS. MORA: We put it out for RFP, yes. We just 
hire a contractor. 

CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Okay. Witnesses in 
opposition? 

Move the nomination. 

Call the roll. 

COMMITTEE SECRETARY WEB: Senator Karnette? 

SENATOR KARNETTE: Aye. 

COMMITTEE SECRETARY WEB: Karnette aye. 

Senator Knight? 

SENATOR KNIGHT: Aye. 

COMMITTEE SECRETARY WEB: Knight aye. 



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Senator Romero? 
SENATOR ROMERO: Aye. 

COMMITTEE SECRETARY WEB: Romero aye. 
Senator Johnson? 
SENATOR JOHNSON: Aye. 

COMMITTEE SECRETARY WEB: Johnson aye. 
Senator Burton? 
CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Aye. 
COMMITTEE SECRETARY WEB: Burton aye. 
CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Congratulations. 
Thank you very much. 

COMMITTEE SECRETARY WEB: Senator Romero, would 
you like to be added to Mr. Keese's confirmation? 
SENATOR ROMERO: Yes, please. 
CHAIRPERSON BURTON: Okay. 



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CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER 

I, JAMES F. PETERS, a Certified Shorthand 
Reporter of the State of California, and Registered 
Professional Reporter, do hereby certify: 

That I am a disinterested person herein; that the 
foregoing California Senate Rules Committee meeting was 
reported in shorthand by me, James F. Peters, a Certified 
Shorthand Reporter of the State of California, and 
thereafter transcribed into typewriting. 

I further certify that I am not of counsel or 
attorney for any of the parties to said meeting nor in any 
way interested in the outcome of said meeting. 

IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set my hand 
this 16th day of July, 2001. 




JAMES F. PETERS, CSR, RPR 
Certified Shorthand Reporter 
License No. 10063 



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